Job Discussion Forums

[Plan B]

Oh well, my principle fires another two teachers to add to the one she canned two months ago, which adds to the teacher who ran away, the teacher who resigned, and the two who are finishing their contracts. This means a total turnover of 7 teachers in a little over four months - every single teacher a devoted professional - a rarity in our line of work.....

......All of which depresses me somewhat. In my misguided naive moments, I like to think that by doing our job well, we, the teachers, for once hold the cards - making the school dependant on our services. The recent actions of my school have contradicted this notion. We are powerless irrespective of our talent and dedication.

I do not assume my principle to be foolish business women. However, I have been searching for a possible way she can benefit from this teacher turnover. The school simply doesn't offer a competitive enough salary to replace the experienced staff she has lost.

So what is her thinking behind these actions? Is she simply on a power trip, not considering the financial implications of her actions, or will this be yet another victory for the Chinese ruling class, over us, the powerless subservients?

[ShapeSphere]

ShapeSphere slowly removes from a large bag - one hammer, one baseball bat and that 'thingy' which is a piece of wood with nails sticking out of it. He then prepares for his favourite sport - another bout of China-bashing.

I totally agree with you Plan B. It's all been talked about many times before. But we are powerless to change the Chinese mindset. I've come to their country and must adapt.

Perhaps it's a power trip, maybe the teachers didn't kiss her ass, who knows? It's not about ability or professionalism, that much is for certain.

My innocence was lost a long time ago. *

* And if anybody makes any lewd comments about my virginity then I will be using the hammer and baseball bat on them.

[Susie]

I believe to some extent your principal is powertripping. She may be moved by her emotions and a hatred towards foreigners. If so there is nothing to stop her. After firing foreigners, the principal saves money since she doesn't have to pay salaries, etc...

I think there is another dynamic here, it is a systemic dynamic of the capitalist system.

[Plan B]

Good points made.

ShapeSphere - We may indeed be powerless to change the Chinese mindset, but if only survive as teachers in the long-term, we must endeavor to at least understand how the mind works.

Susie - I have long accepted our place in the production line as mere commodities, but it's a basic business principle that when the quality goes down (i.e. the teaching quality and reputation of the school), so does the price that you can charge for your goods. In my area, there is healthy competition for English language teaching amongst approximately 5 major schools. Apparently, my school used to charge more than most, and I assume that the quality of service must have been a major factor. I very much doubt that the school will be able to continue to command the same fee.

So, other than not having to pay the end of contract bonuses - surely a petty amount in the big scheme of things - I cannot see any possible way that the school can benefit financially from its recent actions.

.....But maybe, I am wrong, and I am failing to recognise some facet of the Chinese capitalist system, which will allow the school to continue to attract new students.

[kev7161]

As I get nearer and nearer to the end of my time at this school, I start to worry about somethin or another happening and me losing my RT airfare as promised in my contract. I know that I am a GOOD teacher (in the classes that let me teach them), but I am having trouble with 3 of my 10 classes. Nobody has said a word to me as of yet. Nobody has come in to monitor my classes. The CTs are aware of the situation with these classes. But, who knows what is being said without my knowledge? Who knows if they'll tell me in a couple of weeks, "Your services are no longer needed because you are a crappy teacher."??

We have 14 teachers at this school - all seem dedicated to their jobs. Yet most seem disgruntled and my guess is there will be 14 open positions at this school come next September.

[Roger]

I guess two thirds of all training centres act this way. They are in it for the dough and give a total hoot about how well you are accepted, or how effective your lessons are. Even if learner feedback is positive they will go on sampling more teacher material.
But then again, some TEFLers have made a bad impact here too. Some are incessantly talking up their so-called "market value", others have created a stir with inappropriate behaviour. The bottom line is that few training centres are legitimate, and when they are not they don't play by any rules.

[parvati_overdrive]

id seen situations in korea where they would antagonize the older teachers actually hoping they would leave (no bonues/airfare). many schools in korea plan and anticipate this, literally ordering new teachers n a monthly basis. it really sucks if youve got a vague contract.

i had a similar situation - they started to load me up with hours (8-9) one day and then none the next. then when the fresh meat arrived they would work the shix out of him/her to meet their monthly xx hours.

so, antagonize to leave (no bonues/airfare), no overload (ot) pay -

of course you also want young college grads with no exposure to either a real job or the 'real world'.

what a deal!

[Sinobear]

So, why not ask to have your return airfare (as promised in the contract) included in your monthly pay? It seems that many here do not actually negotiate their contracts. How can you talk about "we're in demand so we hold the cards", to paraphrase many posts in other threads, when so many people blindly sign their "as is" contracts in good faith? Negotiate. Get what you want, when and how you want.

And yes, if you're wondering, I rewrote my contract that was presented to me when I arrived. And no, I still don't believe everything they promised and agreed to - but I get my pay, on time, and in full every month.


Cheers!

[parvati_overdrive]

hi sinobear -can i ask an off topic question of you?

im more than willing to negotiate a good contract, even write it or modify theirs -i took a basic contract and signed it thinking -if they are going to screw me, theyll do it regardless. not doing that again.

but do tell -how much can i negotiate before the school just says ...well find someone else that will accept more maleable (sp?) terms?

it would be great to see a standard contract or terms put up here (yes, there are some points in the sticky). it should be fair to both parties, but not to cut you raw.

curious

[Plan B]

My somewhat limited experience regarding contracts is as such - they are used against you much more than for you. For instance, in my contract, there is nothing mentioned about deductions for sick-leave, but when the school removes this money from your pay, what power do you really have? This forum is full of stories concerning broken contracts!

This is why, somewhat misguidedly, I attempted to find a school with a good reputation, rather than an agreeable contract, because I figured that reputation was a more useful quality for a school to possess. A good reputation doesn't just mean good teachers. It means a good position in the market place. I foolishly thought that the school would fight to keep this reputation rather than persecute the teaching staff, thus eventually eroding this reputation.

Although I fully recognise that a lot of TEFL teachers have a holier-than-thou attitude (re: Roger's post), the truth remains that when I arrived at my school, I realised immediately that the school's once fine reputation was justified. The school had hired career teachers all with the relevant qualifications, who had no doubt been attracted to the school as I had. In fact, I felt quite inadequate amongst such company. Now, only three teachers from the original team of 12 remain.

So regarding my original point, can a school be so short-sighted as to believe canning teachers as if they were going out of style would be more financially beneficial than maintaining a good reputation amongst clients and students?

[Talkdoc]

From what I've observed in China, salary is largely based on perceived supply and demand (in the eyes of the Chinese, that is). Credentials (education, certifications and experience) play some part but not as much as you would think. The most powerful bargaining chip you have is yourself: your successful performance as a teacher at the school you are renegotiating with and how easily (or not) they believe they can replace you.

Credentials only come into play when the school perceives (correctly or not) that you have some sort of training they particularly need and can't find a lot of. In Shenyang, an otherwise highly limited, boring and somewhat bizarre IELTS oral examiner (with a master's degree in an unrelated field) commanded over 9,000 RMB per month for 12 hours of teaching per week to stand as the head of the program. I was paid 8500 for, ostensibly, 20 hours per week of teaching (the starting salary was 4,000 RMB for 20 hours). In reality, I was offered that relatively high salary for 20 hours of teaching and an eight additional hours of computer and web design work. When I refused to go along with the eight latent and additional hours of computer work, and especially after I forced them to accept 12 hours of teaching per week in exchange for curricula development, I completely lost my perceived value and I had no power left to renegotiate with after they received what they needed (the curricula to satisfy this big corporate contract). The fact that I could win more contracts for them and that I was highly credentialed seemingly meant little or nothing to them because of the value they had initially assigned to me: based on their perception of their needs and the available supply. Related and in fact, they failed to renew the contract of their DOS (a highly credentialed professional educator who did a very decent job for them) who was paid 16,000 RMB for 40 hours per week because it occurred to them they could distribute his responsibilities to lesser qualified and paid people. Their former (Chinese) director of the business department, after winning many important contracts for them, was given the option of renewing her contract at significantly less money. When she declined, her responsibilities were assigned as an added responsibility to a headmaster of one of their local branches. China is the only Asian country I have lived in, but I have never known a place before that rewards excellent performance with either more hours, less money or both.

It all depends on what they perceive they need, what they feel you can offer and, to some degree, location. If you've done a good job (AND if they care that you have) and the school is making money and you know that they need you (logistically speaking), ask for a 20 percent increase and be psychologically prepared to be offered none. For the Chinese, the fact that you are a sure thing is worth something to them - but not as much as it would be worth back home. In a land of 1.2 billion people and tremendous unemployment, bosses are of the "disposable employee" mindset here whereas back home, a loyal, productive and senior employee is worth his or her weight in gold - not so in China. Until Beijing enforces the minimum teaching requirements or until the current supply of native English-speaking people dwindles down to the point of threatening the viability of the schools' day-to-day operation, foreigners do not (mostly) constitute a notable exception to that mindset.

But especially for an EFL teacher in China, salary isn't everything. If you are happy with your work assignment, if the school treats you right and you've made good local and foreign friends, a significant increase in salary is not of paramount importance (at least to me it isn't) because, relative to others teaching in China, you are already rich.

Doc

[Sinobear]

parvati_overdrive:

I offer a potential employer more than 6 years teaching experience (5 1/2 years at the same school, in a management position). This is interpreted as: I can offer long-term commitment (and the gods know that there were a multitude of problems in that time) and that I'm not likely to pull a runner.
Backbackers and dream-chasers are still looked down upon. This is a job, same as it would be back home (a stable emloyee is much beter than a dollar-hopper {a person who flits from job-to-job in hopes of better pay}.
It is a selling point for a school if they have a mature, competent, experienced teacher that has been there for some time. It builds confidence in the current and potential students as well as potential teachers (regardless of circumstances).
Before I accept a position, I make sure that all of my questions are answered to my satisfaction. I ask for a copy of the contract be sent to me. The second month is when you'll know if you're in for a screwing. The first month, employers will bend over backwards to accomodate you and keep everything A-OK. The second month is when you'll discover if you're pay is to be delivered on time and in full, if there's to be extra hours and duties that were not originally talked about and agreed upon, if your paperwork (visa and FRP) can be legally processed...etc.
At the first sign of deception - bring it to the school's attention. No action, explanation, or satisfaction - you have as much right to terminate the contract as the school does.
Finding a job is not as difficult as putting up with crap. Just remember, leaving a bad school in mid-semester means that you can replace a bad teacher in another school and you'll have the added benefit of a stronger bargaining position.
Believe in yourself and your abilities. Stick to what you want (as long as you're being reasonable and flexible).
Yes, Unfortunately, there's always a backbacker with a full face of piercings willing to take your position for 3K a month - but if a school is willing to hire them, then you wouldn't want to be working for such an organization in the first place.

There's no such thing as a "standard contract" in my mind. Many restaurants offer "standard menus" - but cannot produce the fare they offer. Negotiate and bargain with a prospective employer. Asians love arrogance. Say you can fly. They'll hire you because you said you can fly. "Face" will insure they won't fire you for lying!

Good luck, and cheers!

[Plan B]

[Sinobear]

No, I'm not suggesting that they would bend over backwards, but they will promise that they will! My point is, if you agree to a "standard contract" and the 3.5K or what have you a month - you will get that, and less.
If you negotiate for a much better deal, you will get less, but still more than the original 3.5K. Understand my twisted logic?

Fred Schneitner said it first and best (in his book Getting Along with the Chinese {for fun and profit}): The Chinese will never enter into a contract unless they are certain that they are getting the better deal.



Cheers!

[Madmaxola]

OK OK China's barely breathing... let it be now...