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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Any schools like Kojen/ELSI that have so many complaints filed against them by so many different people should be avoided. |
Any school with (what is it) 25 branches will have 25 times more complaints than any individual school. The higher the profile and the higher the number of foreign workers, the higher the number of complaints will be.
Kojen has its flaws, it is by no means perfect, but as a first step into English teaching it is not a bad option. Many teachers have worked at Kojen for years, so it cannot be all that bad.
Plus, if you now have the option of changing schools, why not come over with a chain school and change jobs if you don't like it? At least you get your airport pick up and free accommodation.
However, if you have an MA in Tesol perhaps you should be aiming a little higher. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| Any schools like Kojen/ELSI that have so many complaints filed against them by so many different people should be avoided. |
I also totally disagree that this is the case. Sure, superficially it would be safe to say that quantity should count for something, but when it comes to such situations it is more accurate to look at quality.
In the case of Kojen, it is pretty clear that the complaints are being made by one or possibly two individuals. Yes, there are other people out there who have complained about Kojen, but the majority of these other complaints were 'very minor'. I put minor in quotes as I understand that the problems appeared larger to the person making the complaints than readers such as myself who read the complaints. Things like unclean bathrooms, noisy kids, irregular hours etc.
I have never seen a serious complaint made about a Kojen school that was verifiable. All of this business about school number 4 or whatever it is may be entirely true, but then again it may be a total fabrication aimed in a personal vendetta against someone at Kojen. Such behaviors are not unheard of from disgruntled employees.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Hess Language schools have been around twice as long as Kojen / ELSI and have 10 times as many schools. Yet the complaints about Hess schools have been in declining numbers and severity for some time. The biggest complaints seem to be the low pay and ineffectiveness of the Hess methods and curriculum. |
Firstly, I would like question the accuracy of the first statement here. It is my understanding that Joy and Kojen were initially in closer co-operation than they now are. Hess came onto the scene much later, but has impressed everyone with the speed of it's spread throughout the island, and quality of it's schools.
I think that the remainder of what has been said is also an incorrect simplification of the situation.
1. Hess and Kojen are both large chain schools that have employed hundreds and even thousands of foreigners over the past ten years. Considering the sheer number of employees it is reasonable to expect a certain number of complaints. The fact that the actual number of legitimate complaints about these companies is so few suggests that they are in fact above average employers. The naysayers that complain about these schools rarely string together a logical nor supported argument against them, yet the individuals that post positive comments about these schools generally put together good arguments for working for them.
2. By far the majority of teachers working for these schools are recent graduates. Many of these are having their first experience living overseas, and often their first work experience. It is reasonable to expect that they would have difficulties adjusting to both living and working, and many of the complaints made about these schools bear this out. Trivial and immature complaints are exactly what I am talking about, and not more serious complaints such as taking deposits etc.
3. Being large, professional organizations, people tend to expect more of them, and seem to be more willing to complain in an attempt to receive resolutions. An analogy may be McDonalds and your local fast food joint back home. Everyone knows that if you spill your coffee or find a hair in your burger in a McDonalds restaurant then you are likely to compensate you well for this with little difficulty on your end. In fact it is an expectation that something would be done. The local burger joint on the other hand isn't really expected by most to do much other than maybe apologize.
I think that this relates to schools in Taiwan in as much as teachers who encounter problems with a small independant probably chalk it up to being part of parcel of working at a small school. Those who experience problems at a chain are more likelly to have the expectation that the school will bend over backwards to meet their requests.
4. Finally, people who work at chain schools are probably more likely to be the type of people who complain. What I mean by this is that chain schools are generally considered to be 'safe' places to work. Those choosing chain schools obviously like the safety and regularity offered. When small changes are made then these teachers are possibly more likely to complain about even small changes.
So overall it seems reaosnable that Hess and Kojen would have their share of complaints. In my opinion though, the number of complaints is a lot less than it could be. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
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I also totally disagree that this is the case. Sure, superficially it would be safe to say that quantity should count for something, but when it comes to such situations it is more accurate to look at quality.
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How well a report is written has no bearing on the validity of that report. I am sure that many of the senior administrators of the schools targeted by their former employees would like to believe your theory. Unfortunately it is not the senior administrators who are choosing perspective employers.
Stay away from chain schools.
Good luck,
A. |
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matchstick_man
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 244
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Chain schools are great starting points for new inexperienced teachers. Unlike a number of independents the chain schools are able to guarantee an increase in hours (not just say your hour will go up).
I started at a Joy School and the teaching guides were full of great ideas many which I still use now. I then moved to an independent which had no teaching guides. How would a newbie handle this? From what I saw not very well. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| How well a report is written has no bearing on the validity of that report. |
I am not suggesting that it is just the wording and how well a report is written that matters.
I am suggesting that a quality report is one that it is well written and well supported and that outline problems clearly, is written about specific schools and avoids over-generalizing and saying such things as 'all chain schools should be avoided', written by authors that answer questions posed in a reasoned way, and remain open to alternative opinions.
To suggest that all Kojen schools should be avoided on the basis of a single experience at one single school in the chain is ridiculous.
To suggest that people avoid all chain schools altogether solely upon the basis that they are chain schools is just silly. I can't remember who it is that often remarks that ALL chain schools should be avoided, but I am sure that the individual making this claim has not worked at every chain school in Taiwan to be making this suggestion. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd like to know why chain schools are supposedly to be avoided. It has been my experience that a school big enough to --1) pay your salary on time 2) give you as many hours as you require 3) provide you with an ARC and health insurance-- is the most desirable place to work. I don't think chains are so bad --certainly no worse than most places on the whole-- and think a blanket statement advocating avoiding all chain outlets is unjustified. |
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