Job Discussion Forums

Nauczyciel · Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject: Maybe I am being too strict?

Is it too strict of me to keep asking for sending stamped and signed contract to me so that I can arrive in China with the paper in my hand? The school says that for the past years they haven't been doing this, but they say they will send me an official invitation letter so that I can apply for a Z-visa before I leave my country. I have heard so many times that it's the most stupid thing to believe that the contract they are going to give you when you arrive will be the same as the one that was agreed on over the Internet, but still... Maybe I am overly suspicious? Maybe if they send me the invitation they deserve the benefit of the doubt? Just a month ago I would have said: "No way, something stinks here, stay away", but if I want to start working this semester it's a bit too late to be fussy...

tofuman · Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937

The contract I received through the internet and the one provided in person were the same. That's not the problem. Regardless of what it says, the problem is enforcing it.

burnsie · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 489 Location: Beijing

Agree with tofuman, it is hard to enforce a contract. The Chinese don't hold contract law as we westerners do. In the past they didn't rely on them, why do they now? Brush up on your negotiation skills and be prepared for the worst.

You are getting a Z visa which is good. Most FT's don't get this and work illegally.

Also be patient and don't yell too much Smile

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

Chinese courts have a wide choice on what they will accept into evidence which makes contract law tricky. Even though the contract sez that the written word is god, courts can and often consider verbal changes, rumors, and conditions around incidents of conflict. The letter of invite is a positive note but you should check out the conditions on campus before you completely commit yourself. With a z visa you start with a plus and when I was in the states they offered a years visa with a z stamp..don't know if that is still possible but it did afford me the opportunity to look around before I signed with the school and I found a position that paid more money..

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

I disagree with the claim that accepting an invitation letter without a signed and stamped contract is "the stupidest thing to do". It often is your only choice. I guess somewhere near half FTs arrive here with the contract to be signed upon arriving. This often takes place later - when the FT has, unknown to him, passed a probation period. Note that in the first one month, sometimes 2 months, you are on probation. This is a rule that applies to Chinese as well. To say our employers are avoiding to commmit themselves right up front is not fair; they don't know you either and have every reason to be wary; thus many don't hire you over distance but sing once you are physically here.

burnsie · Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 489 Location: Beijing

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

One thing you can do if you are very worried is take that contract they (should have) sent you on the internet and find any wording that seems vague or difficult to understand. "Translate" that wording into more general English.

For example, the matter of pay - including full holiday pay - was pretty iffy on my original contract so I worded it differently in ( ) after their statement. It then read something like: (5,000rmb will be paid in full for each of the 10 months of the contract, regardless of holidays, canceled classes due to testing, sporting events, or any other school-planned activity, or any other event. The total received salary for the length of the contract will be 50,000 rmb + contracted travel allowance + contracted reimbursed airfare.)

My school was okay with these changes and signed and stamped the contract. So far, no contractual problems. Other problems? Yes, but the contract is being followed pretty much to the letter.

Nauczyciel · Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:04 am Post subject:

Signing the contract after months of "unknown probation period"? I don't buy that. They can just stipulate it in the contract: "There shall be a month probation period, during which either of the parties can terminate the contract without giving reasons or bearing consequences" or something to this effect. I would be quite willing to sign that, because this stipulation benefits both sides.

anthyp · Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 1320 Location: Chicago, IL USA

In my contract the wording is as follows:

Nauczyciel · Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:37 am Post subject:

Once I fork out the money for the ticket, quit my current job and arrive in China, my bargaining power will diminish greatly. I do want to teach at the school and I think I will have to agree to signing the contract after arrival, but my peace of mind will be gone until I get there and hopefully see the things are OK.

That's funny - having read the accounts and advice on the forum, I got this impression that it actually is the most stupid thing to do to go to China with no more than a promise... Now it seems that I got it all wrong. Or maybe it was the forum advisers whom I believed that were too strict?

I'll try to relax, though. Thanks!

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

My current contract provides for a 2-month probationary period, and it was signed upon my arrival. My previous school did not ask for a probationary period and, again, the contract was signed upon my arrival.

If the school is sponsoring your Z-Visa, then I wouldn't worry about them not signing the contract; the truth is they need you more than you need them. As Tofuman correctly pointed out, the problem isn't in getting the contract signed: it's in compliance after the fact.

Doc

Mister Al · Joined: 28 Jun 2004 Posts: 840 Location: In there

As some posters have pointed out theschool is making sure that you have a legal employment document (Z visa) when you arrive. This is good!Take the internet contract with you and compare the contract you are invited to sign when you arrive. In my experience they have always been one and the same. As for any probation period this is only natural so long as it's not too long (3 months maximum). You never know what your getting until you sample the goods (for employee and employer alike) so take your chances and jump on the plane. Just make sure , if you can, that you always have enough money to leave the country should it all go pear shaped and also keep a hold of your passport, although the school will need this to finalise the legality of your stay and work. This should only take about a week. If you are not asked to have a medical within 30 days of your arrival I'd become very suspicious as without going through this procedure you cannot get legitimate residency.

Best of luck

woza17 · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 602 Location: china

I was sent my letter of invitation and got my z visa in Aussie and an outline of my contract
After 2 weeks upon arrival they increased my salary by 500rmb a month and reimbursed my return airfare.
Then they asked me to sign the contract and everything was as they had promised. I did decline the private car every month and that I would prefer to take the public bus to the nearest city being one of the idealistic Chinese lovers and all.
I was treated extremely well there and went back later to celebrate their 75th anniversary, plan to revisit this year.
From my experience it's the normal procedure.
I hope your first experience in China is as good as mine.
It always helps to have low expectations, then you will never be disappointed