Job Discussion Forums

[leeroy]

One of the golden rules of CELTA dogma is that

[Nauczyciel]

I do use Polish when I teach my Polish students, but I try not to as long as my English explanations seem to work. It very much depends on the level of the students and on the topic discussed. While most adjectives, nouns and verbs can be acted out, some points (mostly grammar ones) are better understood when compared to equivalent notions in the students' language. So, yes - I can see nothing wrong in using the students' language in their English classes, if only in moderation.

[twoface]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the translation method when it is the most efficient and effective way to communicate meaning of a difficult word or phrase. It should not be used as a teaching method for the reasons you stated. Use what works!
I have lived in multicultural communities all my life and have heard non native english speakers translate vocally literally hundreds of times. They'll say something like how do you say in english... in some language to their friend etc. Once they get it they use the english - simple.

[Roger]

I have never in my life used the "grammar'translation Method" so vindictively described by so many TEFLers who in many cases never studied a second language. BUt leeroy's example of his French lessons seems to be a valid one, which surprised me a lot: do they have such backward teaching methods in Britain for teaching other languages? No wonder the Brits are linguistically challenged in their majority.
But in France, for example, this method doesn't seem to have currency. My French partner's daughter acquired sufficient German and English by the age of 14, to go to Britain and Germany respectively on student exchange programmes that included homestays with local families who didn't speak the visitor's language. That was some 15 years ago... now, the young miss no doubt is an advanced trilingual speaker.

One of the things that are basic in teaching a language is for students to acquire the correct metalanguage necessary to describe the target language; even English speakers are seldom familiar with the grammar terminology proper to English: what's an "imperative" and what's a "conditional"? Why "genitive" or "possessive"? The only mitigating factor is: the native speaker doesn't have to explain to himself how his language "works". He has no alternative way of expressing himself.
The L 2 learner, on the other hand, is constantly tempted to choose structures from his first language in the target language. That's why the study of syntax and grammar should be thorough and it should first take place as regards his mother tongue, then in the L 2.
In both cases, he should use the relevant terminology as they alone are appropriate to cover the concepts for which they stand. There is no "gerund" in French, so to translate this term into French is ludicrous. It would be a widely redundant french neologism. That's the same for Chinese or Japanese equivalents for English grammar terms. It's dubious CHinese students understand Mandarin words describing "noun" or "verb", "past tense" or "article" any better than the English ones.

[basiltherat]

i do think its important that the students know you speak another foreign languge - either the language of the host country or another - because students then realize that you can and should appreciate the problems and difficulties of being able to grasp a foreign language. the teacher should be able to take those difficulties into consideration when teaching english and be more sympathetic and understanding in regard to mistakes made by his/her students.
in regard to whether one should speak L1 in the classroom ? seldom. if there is a particular word which is causing a problem, i tend to use a good dictionary. thats wat they are for, after all !
grammar can be explained through multiple examples and practice, in many cases.

reegards
basil

[dmb]

[leeroy]

My tutor mentioned something about the Grammar Translation Method possibly coming back into fashion... not so much as a replacement to any other methods, rather as a complement (you understand...) I did my DELTA in London with multilingual classes, so a GT lesson as experimental practice would have been out of the question here.

Methodology aside, though, it's a little impractical in the world of publishing in that pubslihed materials must tie themselves to a specific L1. Currently, coursebooks like "Cutting Edge" and "Headway" can be sold and used the world over as they are English-only. GT books would have to be L1-specific, hence more costly to produce globally.

[Guy Courchesne]

There are some magazines available in the Spanish-speaking world that seek to compliment the classroom. Most are published in Spain with an EFL purpose. Hot English, Speak Up, Think in English...all three are nice diversions, but not something with which you could teach exclusively.

While it would be too costly to produce the mainstream EFL programs to suit each L1 out there, I would like to see a move in that direction. In Mexico, most elementary and secondary school instruction in English is squarely rooted from an L1 point of view. Why not continue you this into adult EFL work?

I think as teaching/learning English or any language is a mix of science and art, approaches to teaching should also be a mix of the two...grammar translation when possible and needed and experiential when possible and needed.

[thelmadatter]

Hey Guy.. Ill have to check out those magazines you mentioned. Where can I find them here in Mexico?

We just had a discussion about this here the other day. EFL books arent geared to any specific language because publishers want as broad a market as possible. So there is no comparison or contrast to L1 even if it would be helpful. Its also the reason why Focus on Grammar Advanced has this long convoluted explanation as to what definite/indefinite articles are - perhaps very useful for advanced students whose languages do not have articles but mostly a confusing waste of time for my Spanish speakers who just simply need to know what the differences in use are between the two languages.

We talked about creating handouts if we have to, hoping that the alternate explanation will help students who can't get the pure L2 way of presenting it. However, no one wants to reinvent the wheel, so I'm definitely keen on finding those magazines, Guy.

I never learned what 0,1st,2nd and 3rd conditionals are until I got here.... and even now I confuse them at times. I just simply relate the Spanish conditionals to their equivalents in English. Explaining their meaning, esp. using these terms seems overly abstract to me. Most people just dont normally think of their language in such a way (except us folks who LIKE grammar and syntax!)

[Guy Courchesne]

Thelma...I've only ever seen those mags at Sanborn's. Let me go dig them out and I'll see if I can post some website info a little later today. Apparently, they will ship to Mexico if you subscribe. Some newsstands carry them but likely very few.

[valley_girl]

Do you speak the language of your students? No

Do you use it in class?
n/a

If yes/no - why (not)?
I have mixed nationals. I would have to learn Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, Croatian, Russian, German, and several other languages (not that it would be a bad thing to learn more languages, I simply don't have the time).

To what extent is the teacher's knowledge of his/her students' L1 important?
I think that having been a student of a second language is more helpful than having knowledge of students' L1. Direct translation is a crutch. Understanding the learning process, on the other hand, is extremely useful.

[Guy Courchesne]

[ls650]

Do you speak the language of your students?
Beginner level only.

Do you use it in class?
Rarely; perhaps a handful of words in a class.

If yes/no - why (not)?
Probably because I am unable to! I suppose if I spoke more of the students' L1, I would use it.

To what extent is the teacher's knowledge of his/her students' L1 important?
It's important to know differences between the L1 and English.

[Deconstructor]

To use any other language in class except English to me is heresy. It is breaking the most fundamentally important rule, in which case the very notion of teaching English is nullified. It makes this already tenuous industry into an utter, pathetic farce. This is like teaching someone how to shoot accurately with a gun that has no bullets.

In my classes whether beginner one or Advanced two, speaking in L1 prompts me to say, "If you want to use your own language, do it on your own time and stop wasting ours". Breaking this rule three times prompts me to expel that student from class.

Teaching English to foreign students is fundamentally pragmatic. We are teaching them strategies as to how to survive in English. Their job is to communicate. It's very cosy and convenient both for the student and the teacher to use L1 in class. In an Anglophone world, however, no one is going to cut the former a slack for using his/her language. Now he might say in his/her language, "What a jip! I�ve been taken". The class must mimic that real world.

I've taught English grammar to francophone kids who were perfectly fluent in English. This meant that the aim was for them to distinguish adverbs from adjectives, etc. and not to learn how to speak in that language. In this case, using English became secondary. I often spoke French if I felt there were similarities in grammars of both languages. Had I done this in my other French class where students couldn�t speak a single word of English, it would�ve made me the laughing stock of the entire faculty and I would�ve been promptly fired and rightly so. I would�ve fired myself.

[dyak]