Job Discussion Forums

mr mike · Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 3

Okay, I have been planning to come to Turkey for a while--2 years--and I plan to be there quite a while. I just got the CELTA cert in June and have been looking for jobs for 2 weeks. As I understand I have the credentials (degree;BFA graphic design, minor italian AND CELTA AND native speaker) to be hired legally. However, as of yet, I have only received offers to work illegally. It seems that time might be so tight (for processing a work permit) that I will be unable to get work with official status for this fall. I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER!!! So my question is this...

If I do take work with unofficial status, what harm will I do to my future ability to obtain legal work? Of course, if I were to be caught that wouldn't help much. However, what if I am not? Has anyone here gone from illegal to legal in Turkey? I understand the work permit asks for purpose of previous residence in Turkey--how would I explain this? What about listing this work on your resume and then asking future employers not to detail that on your visa app? Sketchy no? Are employers who take illegal teachers hesitant to give references to those teachers? Anything else anybody can say about all this?

What about issues like registering with your own countries Embassy?

I am already aware of many of the problems (i.e. health insurance, contracts with no real value, etc.). So no need to rehash those topics. Thanks everyone!

justme · Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Istanbul

Most people I know work illegally, and have done so for years. In my first school (Interlang, Istanbul), I was hired illegally for a year but then they got me a visa for the second year. That visa ran out and I was illegal again, and by that time working at 2 other schools (owned by the same guy) that, I think, were unwilling to get me a visa because then they would have to pay my social security. Also I don't think either school has whatever credentials are necessary to get permission from the Ministry of Education to hire foreign teachers. Or maybe that's a myth I invented in my mind to account for their obstinance.

But now I'm at yet another school, and had no problem getting another work visa.

Of course, others have had problems. Enough said about this on this forum. If you're illegal, just make sure the school is reputable amongst foreigners for keeping their end of the contract, such as paying you (for Istanbul dershanes, Discover, Dilko, Interlang, and English Time are good for this). Some schools (like Interlang did in the past, though I'm not sure now, and Discover currently does), will even give money every 3 months to (partially, at least) cover visa run expenses.

Visa runs are not too bad-- you just have to spend a night somewhere close, like Greece or Bulgaria, and you can bring back cheap pork and decent wine and remember exactly why Turkey is so wonderful (anyone else find Greece a little snotty? In West Trakya a lot of them even speak Turkish but refuse to do so. Plus they aren't nearly as attentive and fastidious about table-clearing and ashtray emptying...). The Majestik in Alexandropolis is a good place to stay, close to the train station and run by Helena (or sometimes her son who says 'bravo' a lot)-- they even give a bit of a discount to teachers making visa runs from Turkey.

Another advantage of being illegal is you get a day off when the inspectors come. Just the token visa teachers have to work those days. On the other hand, if you're illegal and cops stop you on the street, it's better to have a good story on hand as to why you're in Istanbul in a non-touristy part. A ficticious spouse works well. Same for over-zealous border police who start wondering why you have 3 years worth of tourist visa stamps in your passport...

Anyway, things are more comfortable if you're legal, but neither impossible nor unpleasant if you're not. At least that's my take....

Faustino · Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 601

Any fresh opinions about this?

Scarred2 · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 38

I think that most people come here and start illegal and then after a while, next contract, visit home etc, they get round to getting legal status. No one cares if you are legal are not. Schools pay backhanders to the local police to avoid problems and the police don't really care about a few hundred illegally working Brits, US etc. - they have other groups to target. Schools usually are fairly unhelpful in organising permits, you have to pressure them a bit.

bigbadsuzie · Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject: You loser !

After sitting on your rearend for two whole years you havent bothered to do the most basic of paperwork despite being qualified ,words fail me , why listen to all of the other losers who went before you ,just do it right first time its not soo hard .
Otherwise you will like them get screwed and rightly so there are enough of them here already don't end up being another dershanne dickhead .

Scarred2 · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 38

Well since the authorities change the rules all the time and have you ever visited the Embassy in London - if you are British - the guy doesn't know his arse from his elbow it IS a pain. True two years tho, that is pushing the bounds a bit.

molly farquharson · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 839 Location: istanbul

I have been here 7 years and was legal for 4. I have done two border runs, so I was really illegal for several months at a time a few times (my car was too, another story). Now I have a residence permit and I think that is the happy medium. The work visa is a hard thing, as it takes a really long time, and no one seems to know how to go about it, as they changed the laws. It is still better to have a "friend" somewhere or in several somewheres. I don't have time to go and sit in Canada for three or four months to get a visa so I make do. I am not a loser, either.

I don't think that having been illegal makes it harder to get legal if a convenient opportunity arises. And somewhere along the line you can always get a new clean passport.

the pusherman · Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 31 Location: istanbul

have to agree with Scarred 2 about the guy at the consulate in London being completely useless.
In answer to the original question, it really is easiest just sorting out a proper visa before you come here. If not, make sure the school you work for will guarantee to get you a visa for your second term, or join a school that does. This is all providing you're prepared to return to your country of origin and wait around for a couple of months while all the paperwork is processed. Molly also talks some good sense, though.

31 · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797

Pushie`s sucking up.

Someone your age should be looking at joining the British Council-isn`t that where old teflers go?

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

31 · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797

That is so rich coming from you. Of course it is true. Look at Gulf teflers and you will see yourself in 20 years time.

But I posted about salaries of 1000 pounds a month and you dmb replied ''really.''

You did a miserable year in Qatar and only eaned 2500 dollars a month. You sneered here about a grand yet you only earned 1300 pound at the Gulag.

Tell all DMB-who are you working for and stop the sneering about salaries-you are getting the average-you did an easy (compared to Saudi) 9 months in QATAR and you won`t post about your time at Interlang.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

31, I think you have me confused with someone else. I have never worked at Interlang. And I spent more than 9 months in the Gulf. As far as I know you know nothing about my current salary or what I earned in the Gulf. Time to ignore your antaganostic posts. I thought you were trying to behave.

31 · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797

DMB You worked for Qatar Qaeronautical College. You earned 2500 dollars a month. About 1300 pounds. OK housing was free as was transport to wor. If you avoided the prossies and drinking ij hotels then you cuuld save.\
`
DON`t tell us you are earning great money at English World. You may not have worked at Interlang but you know the scumbags well.

Scarred2 · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 38

31,

Don't you learn. The last time you wrote a load of abusive crap (about me) peope wrote to you asking why you felt you needed to do so. You then wrote a PM to me asking me to to take down my reply in which I quoted your ridiculous rant. Now you are at it again. OK, so the owner of Interlang pratted teachers around, but are Interlang scum?

I expect your comeback will be along the lines of me being in with the Interlang crowd etc. Not so. Or simply revert to personal attacks which are amusing in the fact that they expose you for being a bit sad.

31 · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797

No the owner of Old Interlang did not just ''pratt' people around he robbed them plain and simple. If your mystery employer called you into the office tomorrow and said you can leave now or sign a new contract at a lower salary would you call that ''pratting around?''

As for personal attacks, you are right they are sad but your posts are nasty sometimes.

Don`t pick holes in my spelling as I didn`t in your last post.

Sad You called yourself sad in one of your posts for having nothing better to do than post here.