Job Discussion Forums

[jgirl]

Hi! Has anyone heard of or does anyone work for TPR English school in Zhuhai? They sent me a contract, but also said that I will get a visa when I arrive. I have heard that you should get the visa before arriving. Can anyone explain to me exactly how this works? Also, any positive or negative things that you have heard about this school would be appreciated, as I am seriously thinking about working there.
Thank you!!

[Roger]

I don't know TPR personally but I have seen their name appear quite often, seldom in a purely negative context. I say, go for it! The visa query you have is not one I would worry about - they no doubt will get you a work visa once you have passed your probation there.
I recommend you read that other thread about Fountain School Zhuhai.

[Kai6854]

I've PM'd you with some food for thought, JGirl.

[TESOLman]

I had an interview with TPR in early Jan. The person who interviewed me knew nothing about the salary. The facilities were impressive. I didn't persue my application because they want teachers who will work weekends. I've paid my dues in the area and will not work weekends. A friend of mine in Zhuhai sent his young daughter to TPR and was satified. TPR stands for Total Physical Response and is a method of teaching develop some time ago. When I asked my interviewer about using Total Physical Response she didn't understand what I was talking about.

Anyway, that's all I know about the school.

[Talkdoc]

JGirl - if you are willing to travel up to half-way around the world to work for this school, then they should be willing to invest in your Z-Visa before you enter the country. The issuance of the Z-Visa has nothing to do with probation (assuming they have such a period). Some schools will try to hedge their bets, making sure you arrive and can pass the physical before processing the paperwork (and, perhaps also, to check you out). Meanwhile, you are working illegally and if anything goes wrong (or if the school turns out to be unscrupulous), you are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. The fact that they have taken this position with you is already troublesome to me.

I would not recommend working in China, for any length of time, with anything other than a Z-Visa.

Doc

[Roger]

TalkDoc,
I state very categorically that maybe half of Guangdong's schools hire applicants only upon seeing them in person. I am surprised that someone like you advises against following the regular route in this domain. I am aware, of course, of the pitfalls of getting a job without being legal, and I am infamous for complaining here about the many rookies that traipse around China without caring about their legal status.
But I had interviews with Zhuhai schools before, and all that I happen to know hire people only upon having seen them in flesh and blood, whereupon they get their locally-issued work visa. I grant this may vary from province to province. Still, TPR isn't a school with a bad reputation. It's worth taking a little risk. I for one don't understand how Chinese employers can hire total strangers from abroad without having had a face-to-face with them.

[Talkdoc]

[latefordinner]

apologies if this doesn't work, my server logged out while I was typing.

Roger, I agree with much of what you write, but here I believe you are somewhat blinkered. TalkDoc points to an apparent contradiction in your oft-stated position, and I wish to address that. Teachers who come here on anything other than Z visas are by definition uncaring of their legal status and thus unprofessional, yet schools have every reason not to pay for the Z until they have sampled the merchandise. What's a teacher to do?

For that matter, how do you classify me? I came for my first contract on an F, only after asking the (western) DOS who interviewed me if the Z would be forthcoming. Guess what, she hemmed and hawwed her way around it but it wasn't, and I worked the contract through on the ever-renewed F. I like to think that I did my best and carried out my duties in a professional manner etc, but the bottom line is that I was an illegal teacher for the duration of my first contract. Do you consider me uncaring about my staus? For my second contract, I chose to leave my first employer and take a small cut in pay primarily because I was told (by another FT) that the new school could obtain a genuine Z visa for me. After learning that I was leaving for another school, the Chinese head-teacher of the first school came to me and told me that the school was in the process of obtaining proper foreign-expert certification, and soon would be able to obtain Z visas for all the foreign teachers. (Everybody? Including the young kid just out of high school, who has never set foot on a university campus, let alone earned a degree?) It would seem the choice was obvious for someone who cared about his professional integrity and legal status.
Sorry, I was even further wrong with the second outfit. They cost me a lot of money, time and heartache. In the end I not only didn't have the Z visa, but didn't get paid almost 11,000 rmb that I was owed. <take note; latefordinner is still a bit bitter about that episode, and will refrain from dwelling on the past insofar as he is capable> Do you say, "tough luck, you signed on for what you got"? The only way that I could have avoided these situations would have been to have taken TalkDoc's advice some years ago and not have come to China without the Z in hand. For half the schools in Guangdong (by your estimation), that would have meant not coming at all.

By my humble estimation, it would have been closer to 80% of the schools in China, but let's not quibble numbers or we'll be here forever. Let's just say that in my limited experience, the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor are all Chinese schools dishonest; but note how the smart money bets.

Of course, just giving in to western teachers' collective demand for the security of a Z doesn't satisfy the Chinese employers' collective concern for the quality of the teachers being hired. As you say Roger,

[Plan B]

Unfortunately, a lot of jobs that we accept over the internet have to be taken on trust. There is no legal route to take if the school decide not to hire you after arriving. We must try and determine the reputation of the school before arrival. The situation in which you have been offered is the same as mine for a similar school in the area.

....In the case of TPR, although I have heard good things about their reputation in general, there was a case almost exactly a year ago when they oversubscribed on the number of prospective teachers, and a young Canadian couple were told that there was no longer a place for them. In this particular case, they simply moved to one of the other similar schools in the area - I believe Santana.

In short, you most likely have nothing to worry about - in the worst case scenerio, you simply have to move around and make a few phone calls.

[jgirl]

Thank you for all the information! What I have gathered so far is this:
1) They are expecting me to come over as a tourist and then proceed to obtain a z visa.
2) I stand the chance of getting stiffed and have to go home.
3) This is illegal.
4) But,this is the way it is normally done.
Okay, they told me that I will have to have my medical exam done in China, so that means that I can't have my visa until I get there. Is this BS? Is there a doctor I can go to in the US that will be acceptable? Another thing, I have a degree in teaching, I have two years experience and an ESOL certificate. I also sent them a picture, will have a phone interview and have great references. Shouldn't this be enough to get the foreign expert visa? They also tell me that they have a two week training on their method that I will take before I start teaching. Is this enough time for them to get me the visa? Thanks for all your help! I don't want to do anything illegally and I don't want to seem unprofessional. From everything that I am reading on this website, it is hard to understand that something so illegal is common practice.
(This is how I feel right now because I have no idea what to do.)

[Finnegan]

Poor jgirl,

You sound the epitome of naive. Of course illegal crap happens all over, all the time AND without your knowing it! And so? This ESL gig is a risky deal and I am sure if you, me, the rest, were to know of how many folks got screwed, you (we) might stay home and braid dandelion stems.

I am new at this too, and I don't have a good feeling about going to China simply for the reason that I hear too many 'too good to be true' stories. I am also looking for something with a high degree of respect---and I know this sounds hilarious to some of you out there, but if it sucks to be spat on at home, who needs to go abroad for this?

Best of luck. What do you teach? I mean, what degree(s) do you have?

[Volodiya]

Perhaps the answer is to be just a little more patient, and to continue your job hunt.

Your qualifications are better than many (most?) people who have serious teaching jobs with serious employers who can, and will, arrange the Z visa for you BEFORE you come to China.

I just don't think you will have to settle for something less.

[cujobytes]

If you've been offered a job at TPR, take it. They've been in business 12 years and are the premium private English language school in Zhuhai. They are professional in all aspects, look after their teachers well and provide good accomodations. The foreign affars staff are excellent. They have an administration dept. called house keeping who's sole resposibility it is to take care of FTs. The schools are modern and comfortable and zhuhai is a great place to live with a large expat population and relatively clean environment.
Hope this doesn't sound like a free plug for TPR but if it does too bad, I like them. An ideal situation for a newbie. They take care of the Visa stuff quickly and professionally.
Just get your ass to Zhuhai and see how smoothly it all works out.
See you down bar street some time.

[jgirl]

I'm sorry if I sound too naive, but we all start gathering information somewhere, and I do believe that this is the place that I should feel okay asking questions. I am a second grade teacher in the U.S. I have a bachelor's degree in Elementary education. I have an ESOL endorsement and a teaching certificate in Florida. I have two years of teaching experience. I love my job very much. I have always wanted to live in another country, China in particular. I would like to do this while I am young with no attachments. I am trying to decide between a great school here and taking an opportunity to live in China and still be able to do what I love. I know a lot of people have gotten screwed over, but there are also a lot of people who choose to stay in China. I am just trying to get the specifics of how it works. That way I can decide for myself if it is worth it. Unfortunately, simply saying that illegal crap happens doesn't really help me.

[Finnegan]

Dear Jgirl,

Please don't take offence--or at least understand that none was being dumped on you. I guess that I am simply expressing my own fears (I guess we can call this 'projection') in this dialogue. In your last entry, you have filled in many gaps which allows one to see that you are serious. It is a tough call. I do here that, as a result of English becoming more popular and with an emerging Chinese economy, there are many unscrupulous recruiters and schools. Why is it that people will screw you over for money?? Anyway, as I mentioned (as I sit in BC, Canada), I am new at this too. It sounds as if not everyone has had a rotten experience--and certainly bad news travels faster. Why China, just out of curiousity?

The flip side of being too conservative is that of having an enormously fulfilling experience--something that will forever change you.

Another writer probably said it best by suggesting that you remain patient and keep asking the questions.