Job Discussion Forums

[marblez]

In Linguistics, we are taught that language is dynamic and always changing. Certain words and phrases are not acceptable in another English speaking country, or even in the next town. So where do we draw the line? These differences are even noticable on this forum between the native speakers. I don't have any specific words or phrases in mind - it's just a thought of the moment.

[juststeven]

Marblez,
Dynamic, yes; changing,yes. But for the better, I wonder. I remember my daughters, when they were young, saying, "Dad, he called me and he goes like, and I said that I'm all like you know." Well that stopped after a few years because their father was too concerned with the way they communicated. Now they both have M.Ed.'s and are teachers. The days of creative prose of our language are gone, I'm afraid. Our children are lazy and would rather play video games. You know what I'm all like saying?

[distiller]

It's an interesting query in that it makes you consider the highly debatable topics of authorial intent, or the speaker, and the ideal reader, or the listener, both borrowed from Reception Theory.

One key point is that how do we balance the intent of the speaker with the ability of the listener? If the speaker thinks that he/she is speaking perfectly clearly but is incomprehensible to native speaker we obviously have an issue. But as the original post addressed, who is the ideal listener? Certainly it is not of one nationality or race, etc. As in reception theory, the intent of the speaker means little in that the goal is communication and if that goal is not met to some extent then the speech is a failure. As teachers trying to help, intent is important but in terms of whether or not something is comprehensible the speech must stand on its own even if the speaker is not present. More practically, the ideal listener is an imagined character. One compiled of each our versions of the average English speaker. This can be a mix of Brit-American-Canadian-Australian-Irish-etc English speakers, or rather those native speakers of English the teacher has come in contact with, but also probably includes non-native speakers, especially those in the home country of the speaker. So basically, there will be almost as many ideal listeners as there are teachers. So the quick answer to who is the ideal listener is: you. That is that you are only able to shape your ideal listener from your own experiences. If someone is unfamiliar with a certain type of slang or dialect they are not going to be able to say, "Well, I've never heard that before but I imagine that it is Northern Australian slang for a honeycomb that has fallen on an anteater�s arse." So we are basically left to our devices and as communication is the ultimate goal of speaking then whether or not you, the teacher, understand it is the first layer of correctness that a speech must pass. However, as every teacher knows the more you get to know your students and their culture the more you are able to infer meaning in ways that those unfamiliar with the student or culture might not be able to. Sometimes a few grunts is actually enough language to suffice getting a point across. Then of course there is context. If a man in a six foot tall green afro is standing next to you, "Dig reen fro" may be perfectly communicative, though meaningless out of context. So in terms of plain old you this is where the metaphysics come in. One has to be able to transport one self out of one's current agency and think in no particular order A) Would this be comprehensible to an unacquainted native speaker where I am from, B) Would this be comprehensible to an unacquainted native speaker anywhere, and C) Would this be comprehensible to unacquainted world English speakers and more specifically to those locally. This of course requires teachers to keep up to date on language and culture. If a student says,� I talked to my friends on ICQ� and you don�t know what ICQ is then you�re in trouble, especially if you say it is wrong because of ICQ. In terms of regionalism or colloquialisms the properly educated teacher should be able to tell the student whether or not the student got that particular aspect right but also to inform that it is only valid in certain areas and suggest a more universal alternative. Quite a bit also depends on the student. If the student is 35 and wants to have small chat on a Thai beach while rubbing down hairy Speedo laden geriatric German men then his/her requirements will be different from a high school student planning on go to university in England or a ten year old who has no idea where he/she will use English as you are the only English speaker they know.

[KiteBiker]

would anyone dare use A Clockwork Orange? What about other futurists and how they see English evolve? Could it be useful?

[distiller]

Again, it depends on the audience, or ideal listener. If you are in a room full of film buffs at a Kubrick film convention then throwing around words like "Droog" are perfectly fine and understandable. But if you say, "Can my droogs come by for tea" your Gran is going to give you an already blanker stare than she already does. Seeing as that for general purposes you are much more likely to find people like old Gran it probably would be useless vocab and just plain incomprehensible if the speaker didn't know the substitute.