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Newbie Questions
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Deconstructor



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before anyone jumps on any month-or-two-long certs, s/he should consider doing a cert or a diploma at a credited university. It's true that it will take longer to complete these, a year or two; though you will not spend more money than you will on CELTA if you're in Canada, but at the end you will be infinitely better prepared and you will get credits towards a B.Ed if you ever decide to complete one.

There are many universities that offer such programs such as McGill and Concordia in Montreal. I got my TESL Cert at Concordia. The 30 credit program is amazing and all the courses are taken from B.Ed TESL.

Again, if your goal is to teach overseas only, then go with CELTA or the like because you shouldn't spend too much time, energy and money on teaching overseas, where the greener you are the better, but if your goal is to continue teaching in the U.S. or Canada you need to be better qualified than just having a one month deal; unless you want to work part time in a language school for $15/hr.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are Rache's key points, as I see them. The main one in her way is NOT the TEFL certificate. It is her lack of a bachelor's degree. I can't speak for other countries, but here in Japan, unless you have years of experience teaching, you can't get a work visa without that bachelor's degree. Only a 1-year working holiday visa (or marrying the right person) will allow you to teach without a degree.

Quote:
rachael here from UK, currently doing my tefl and hoping to get out there in the real world,


Quote:
I have always wanted to teach but never had the guts and to teach here in the UK, you need a degree, which I dont have. So a TEFL will allow me to enter teaching and help others around the globe at the same time


Quote:
Yes id love to do a more indepth course like Celta but as mentioned, time is a constraint and me being an eager girly wants to play out there now!!!
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RacheUK



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: More advice..... Reply with quote

Hello there,

Thanks again for all your advice,

I have been thinking of either doing a Tesol with English First here in the UK or abroad with TEFL international... what do you think?

Is it realistic to be able to save money to live on whilst doing the course and then try and find more money for flights etc?

At least if i do the course here in Manchester, I can live with the boyf and have no expenses.

There is a course in Sep from English First, that I desperately want to be on, but its hard saving when you only have �900 a month and outgoings to match almost half that. My credit is bad, so no chance of a loan and my parents aren't in a situation to give me a hand.

Please tell me it possible, Im hearing so many stories from people out there, living my dream... i dont want it to be a dream anymore.

As usual guys, Any small nugget of info would be devoured!

Rache
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the issue of financial resources alone, it sounds like Manchester is your best bet?

Anytime you want to go abroad to work, play, or study, you should always have a back up plan, meaning savings, just in case things don't work out, or to help with set up costs. Even if a flight and housing are to be provided by an employer, you'll still find yourself having to spend on extras when first arriving, as you get used to the flow of things.

If you can't head out with at least 1000 pounds saved, at least that, then you leave yourself open for problems. It sounds like you have a little time to save up though.

2 cents
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RacheUK



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

just got some info through from English first. I can do a 4 week course with them here in manchester for �475 providing , if passed, i take up a 12 month paid position in one of their schools in indonesia or china.

seems to good to be true right?

This sounds ideal, qualificaiton and a job (which is what i was worried about) 12 months teaching experience.

but, would this qualification allow me to teach in other places?

Does anyone know anythingof english first? or actually done courses with them?

i called them up, and they were really helpful (that's their job though...)
I just dont want to get suckered into this,

Please, someone, come along and say. 'yeah their ok, go for it'

Excited but scared

racheUK

can reach me at mail that is hot.
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Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a search here on English First, not a great reputation, but take a look.
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From another angle...

Doing the EF cert, then a one year stint with them might be a good idea if your aim is to continue on working in another country. Barring arguments over the quality of an EF certificate/training, your one year of teaching experience should be enough to open up better jobs in wider pool of countries.
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orangiey



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 217
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: we are in the same situation Reply with quote

Hi rach

Go for it girl!
I am planning to do the same, I looked at EF but have deceided to do the CELTA p/t at Cheltenham college. I would be interested to see what you deceide and how you get on.

Good luck
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laura1d



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Rache,

It all depends how urgently you want to get the qualification. When I took my TEFL a few years ago I was in your position - full time work and not much time. The option I decided upon was a TEFL course run by my local University. It was 3 hours every Wednesday evening and a few weekends too. It took a year to complete. It was really comprehensive, with alot of practical teaching time, 4 assignments and a 3 hour final exam (if I remember rightly).

That could be an option for you - then you can continue to work and save before you move overseas.

Laura
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RacheUK



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again

i thought about the EF course, and ok its a year experience, but its teaching EF curriculum in EF schools,

they also do the Trintity TESOL.

What do you think? better qualification but no experience?
or not quite as good certificate but a years experience? I searched on English first as some people suggested, and ive read that the placements are lousy paid and to many hours.

Im not expecting great working conditions etc as only a newbie, i'll be glad of a job! but i dont want to be walked over.

So? what you think? TESOL or no to TESOL that is the question?

Id be very appreciative of your thoughts,

racheUk
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rachaelmh



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I�ve just completed the CELTA course with International House and would really recommend it, if you can manage the fees. I just felt it was worth paying the money for and also the reputation that IH has was another plus in it�s favour. Steer well clear of i-to-i. Like someone said earlier, they really are just in it for the money and, knowing a bit about their set-up in Leeds, they are just playing on the gap-year student that wants to "spend a year out before Uni" market, and not someone who has a genuine interest in TEFL as a career.

IH run courses in Newcastle, which I think would be the nearest to you in sunny Manchester, or London, or, if you are going to have to spend money on rent anyway, why not go abroad and do it like I did, in Spain.

Good luck anyway!! Razz
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Sekhmet



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 329
Location: Alexandria, Egypt

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have said tons of times about the i-to-i course, so I'm not going to mention it again here. The TEFL International course in Thailand looks good - I did the one in Egypt last year, and I wish they'd had the PELT option then. It looks like a really good idea, and I hear they're trying to expand to a bunch of other countries. It's run through OIIE (Oregon Institute of something-or-other...), and looks pretty decent, especially if you're desperate to get your feet wet! And although you don't make a whole load of cash during the Internship, at least you get the experience....
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Affordable TEFL certs. Reply with quote

Hey Rache, and anyone else interested.
I actually work for EF at the moment, and it does have a bit of a bad reputation, but I've been lucky.
Brief CV - I got my TEFL from New World Teachers, haveing done ZERO research on TEFL. It was an impulse based on a NWT ad in the Utne Reader (think "hip, young Reader's Digest"). Turned out to be OK, but I was lucky. Some reputable indie course providers would be like Via Lingua or Transworld, but I don't know any right there in England. CELTA or Trinity would be better.
I've since taught in many places and finally wound up at EF in Indonesia. Now I'm a Director of Studies at an EF in China, and though I too have no degree, I have recently been awarded my Trinity College, London LTCL Diploma TESOL.

From what you said, I would highly recommend the EF cert. Yes, I'm with EF now, so I have hired a lot of EF TEFL certified teachers.
EF offers the Trinity, but it's expensive. They also offer their own brand certificate, much cheaper (because they don't have to pay for Trinity examiners). Both courses are identical, with the exception of the Trinity people.
The course in Brighton (don't know about Manchester) is run by an awesome and consumate teacher called Huan Japes. He's also somewhat eccentric, and a really really great guy (he was my trainer when I did my Trinity diploma course). It's an excellent course. As Guy pointed out, it's not as well known, but after a year at EF, that hardly matters. Anyway, they subsidize a large chunk of it if you take a year's contract in China. So there you go. I would highly recommend it. The teachers I hire off that course are WELL prepared, and not just for EF materials. They do a professional course, not just indoctrination.
Another suggestion that no one here has made is the Caladonia School in the Czech Republic. I don't know it, but I've heard good things. They'll put you through their training program and hire you immediately on the spot. Might be worth looking into.

BTW, EF has a dodgy reputation because of individual franchisees and unrealistic, uncompromising former teachers who felt hard-done by and spout off about it. EF schools in China hire hundreds of teachers, and the vast majority are treated well.
The individual franchisees can be rip-off artists, I know and admit. But if you were to go with EF China and write to me when they offer you a particular school, I'd be happy to let you know what I know about it. I'll steer you away from the ones that I know are dodgy and tell you if I don't know one way or another about others.
Just FYI, what they do is train you in England, and recruit you through their head office in Shanghai. What they don't tell you in England, though, is that the head office (EFBC) is a paid service - paid by the individual owners of the EF schools around the country. Well, those individual owners have a LOT more autonomy from the head office than they would want you to believe. This is the source of a lot of misunderstanding with new teachers. You should be aware of it. That makes things a bit scarier, but then again, if you wanted to work for white people in ties, you could stay in England.
The head office, though, DOES supply you with the contract, and all the EFs use it, and it's a more-than-fair contract for the teacher. The schools generally honor it, because not honoring it is one of the few things that can get their franchises pulled.
The school I'm at now has teachers on their second, even third, contracts. They wouldn't stay if it was a bad scene (notice I'm not telling you which school I'm at - this is not a commercial for "my" school). A lot of the bad reputation for any school in Asia stems mostly from an inability to cross a HUGE cultural gap.

I personally think this is a great career - a perfect fit for me (being a dodgy character, myself, hahaha). The demand for good teachers is VERY HIGH, between there being a huge number of English students world-wide and the high burn-out rate of teachers - living in a foreign country is very stressful for some, and for others it's just a lark or a gap year. If you want to make it a career, you could do a lot worse.
You could do a LOT worse.
Let us know here, and let me know personally with a PM if I can offer any more advice or help - I consider it part of my job to recruit for EF in general, and it's in my nature to recruit for TEFL in general, because this career literally saved my life...but that's a story for another time. :)
Good luck, and I hope we hear good news from you soon.
Most sincerely,
Gregor
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Gregor



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: I forgot to mention... Reply with quote

Rache and any other newbie,
This is good general advice, but I know what I'm talking about with regard to EF in particular - 100% of the trouble that I have seen between teacher and local management has come with "extra-contractual" disputes.
What I mean is, teachers coming over with their own special needs not covered in the contract, like needing to leave a little before a year is up, or trading a flight for money or whatever. If you enter into a verbal agreement, you are literally, even expressedly, asking for trouble. Make sure that every single agreement is in writing that both parties understand.
For example, I did a two-year contract, with a company-wide understanding that I would have a 10% increase after the first year. But the boss understood it as an increase for signing a second contract, not a secod year in the first contract.
I even had this in writing, but that particular piece of paper was sent to me by the school for recruitment purposes - it wasn't actually SIGNED by anyone.
I lost what amounted to about $1300, US. And it was MY FAULT, because I didn't have it in my contract. The moral of the story is to be prepared for people to honor the letter, but not necessarily the spirit, of the contract. if you keep this in mind, you will be fine.
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