Job Discussion Forums

[BradS]

That's really interesting that they find that polite. In most English speaking countries, if I spoke to a Japanese person in a "Japanese accent" I would be called a racist and that that kind of humour went out of style 40 years ago.

[PAULH]

WHEN IN TOKYO, DON'T SPEAK AS THE JAPANESE DO


FLUENT FOREIGNERS OFTEN VIEWED WITH SOME ALARM AND SUSPICION


Marc Simmons, a British computer consultant who lives in Japan, was chatting with a young Japanese woman on the subway recently when she cried out in disgust. The reason: He switched in mid-conversation from English to fluent Japanese. "Yaadaa!" she screeched, using the Japanese equivalent to "yuck" and making it quite clear she suddenly found him repellent.


To Simmons, the episode was bizarre, but not unusual. In one of the odder twists to this small island nation's relationship with the rest of the world, many natives don't like foreigners who speak Japanese too well.


"I've spoken fluent Japanese to people and they've called me a `weird foreigner,' or an `overboard foreigner,' " Simmons said. "They don't feel anybody but the Japanese can speak their language."


Many foreigners fluent in Japan puzzle over the phenomenon. In their more charitable moments, they wonder if the reaction is based on surprise that anyone has mastered the difficult language, or disappointment that an exotic foreigner has suddenly become less interesting.


"I would call it defensive superiority--to make their club more exclusive," said Dave Spector, a Chicagoan who is a celebrity in Japan where he appears on television shows as a Japanese-speaking commentator and entertainer. "The Japanese are proud of the fact that they take a long time to get to know. If someone speaks fluently, then all of a sudden the theory that Japanese are impenetrable doesn't hold much water. It threatens the status quo."


Japan's geographic and cultural isolation spawned its sense of uniqueness and, arguably, superiority. Scholars agree that remnants of that ideology remain, but they don't agree that it's unhealthy.


"The majority of Japanese feel that foreigners are foreigners and Japanese are Japanese," said Shigehiko Toyama, a professor of English literature at Showa Women's University in Tokyo. "There are obvious distinctions. Foreigners who speak fluently blur those distinctions and that makes the Japanese feel uneasy." But Toyama said most of the reaction is wonderment at foreigners who are fluent. "It's not negative," he said.


Hiroshi Tanaka, a sociology professor at Hitotsubashi University in Tokyo, is more critical. He said the aversion to fluent foreigners is a legacy of Japan's militaristic nationalism. "The Japanese thought they were superior," he said.


Just how widespread this question of discomfort is among the Japanese was made clear on television a few weeks ago when a prominent newscaster commented on a man living in Japan who spoke perfect Japanese though his family is from India. "It's better if foreigners speak broken Japanese, right?" the newscaster quipped.


The comment, by Hiroshi Kume on the TV-Asahi network, set off a protest among some foreign scholars and business executives who speak fluent Japanese. Several have written letters or called the network seeking an explanation, and the incident has become the subject of intense debate with an Internet discussion group on Japan issues.


A spokesman for the network defended Kume's comment as a joke that acknowledged the fact that it remains somewhat rare-- and therefore a bit odd--to see a non-Japanese speaking the language well.


But some fluent foreigners said Kume's remark reflected an uncomfortable truth about this nation that will continue to get in the way of its relations with the outside world.


"There's an us-versus-them attitude," said Glen Fukushima, a prominent American executive in Tokyo and former U.S. government trade official. "It's a sense of being invaded or contaminated or polluted by foreigners and foreign ways."


Fukushima told of a visit he made with members of the American Chamber of Commerce in Japan to a prominent Japanese politician. When they asked for advice about how to lobby successfully, the politician replied that the chamber needed someone who could convey their message in Japanese.


"However, your spokesman's Japanese shouldn't be as good as Fukushima-san's, since it would no longer be cute," the politician said with a laugh.


Although Fukushima said the attitude is not universal--and he recognized that both the newscaster and politician could have been joking--he also said he believes many Japanese perceive fluent foreigners to be a threat to both Japanese culture and its business prowess.


"I believe there are many things the Japanese do that they don't want non-Japanese to figure out," he said. "They have a protective and secretive approach to the language. They have a word they use that means `saying different things to different audiences.' "


The question of uniqueness remains a fascination in Japan, where many books have been written about it. One of the more infamous claims was that Japanese intestines are longer than Westerners', making American beef an unsuitable import.


Many visitors to Japan complain that the same attitude prevails at even the most mundane levels. They say the Japanese express continual astonishment when a foreigner masters the use of chopsticks, eats sushi or speaks even a few words of Japanese.


Whether this reaction also reflects a uniquely chauvinistic view of outsiders is perhaps impossible to say. Many cultures consider themselves special. But longtime foreign residents like Marc Simmons say the exclusivity of Japanese culture is more intense, and frustrating.


Simmons told of a woman who was surprised at how well his young son speaks Japanese--for a foreigner. But Simmons' son was born and raised here, has a Japanese mother and looks Japanese.


"In other words, a boy who is born in Japan and speaks Japanese really shouldn't be able to speak Japanese because of me," Simmons said. "He'll never be Japanese because of me."


Simmons said the only way he can avoid some of the bad reactions to his ability with the language is to keep his good Japanese to himself.


"I put on a heavy accent and try not to be so fluent," he said. "I get more things done that way."

[Nismo]

"If you cannot get rid of the family skeleton, you may as well make it dance."

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

-George Bernard Shaw

[Lynn]

Here in the states I recently went to a 'practice-speaking-Japanese' club. When I arrived there were both native speakers there. I was sitting next to an American guy who is a regular. He told me that the club is really more of an English language practice because the Japanese will never actually use Japanese to speak with the Americans.

I was disappointed, yet not really surprised. I ended up speaking Japanese the whole night but with another American. He was a beginner, so I was more or less teaching him Japanese. He thanked me profusely and said that he's been coming to this club for 6 months but that was the most Japanese he had ever used.

[shuize]

If you want them to use Japanese, just snicker whenever they say something not quite right in English. Even better, if your Japanese is up to it, explain their mistakes to them in Japanese.

[homersimpson]

[JimDunlop2]

PAULH: That was quite the article. I have only one word to describe the attitude that it portrays: disgusting. There's just no other way to justify it, no matter how many university professors you collect to attribute it to isolationist history.

IMHO, Japan's 200yr isolation has become the BEST and greatest scapegoat I've ever heard for overt racism. How convenient! All what anyone ever has to do, when faced with the RACISM issue, is just play the "Well, it's because of Japan's history" get-out-of-jail-free card, and everyone just shrugs their shoulders and moves on. No one is ever compelled to actually CHANGE that attitude. I can only imagine how a similar scene would play out in North America.

GRANDPA: There's too many damn Chinks in this country.

YOUNG PERSON 1: You can't use that word grandpa. They're called "Chinese". And besides, most were born here and are very hardworking.

YOUNG PERSON 2: Well he only says it cause that's the way he was brought up. That's the term they used back then and he just doesn't know any better.

So, what's better? Leave grandpa be? or work on him to change his views/thinking/language? Of course you're just going to leave him be. There's no way anyone is going to want to invest the time and energy on Grandpa. Heck, he's a dying breed right? As soon as he goes, we'll have a much more enlightened society. Unfortunately, he's already taught the values to his children and grandchildren.

Many N. Americans I think have come beyond the identity crisis of "What is an American? or What is a Canadian?" The Japanese have yet to face that some day, and probably not for a while yet. I think Japan must have their own "Rosa Parks" to sit at the front of the bus someday, to open the eyes of the people. This cannot happen until enough foreigners have infiltrated Japan to make a difference. This is only but a matter of time unless Japan completely reverts to absolute isolationism, which is unlikely. The only question is, WHEN will this reach critical mass?

[Glenski]

I have not read all of the posts here, so forgive me for just jumping in.

I am not fluent in Japanese, but I make do. In my HS, I sometimes play it down just to force the kids to use English. I do this in AND out of the classroom. It often ticks me off to see kids barely able to speak English after 6 years, and then suddenly just before they graduate, they pass me in the hall and use fairly good (albeit broken) English. Hey! What have you been trying to pull in the last few years that I taught you? Were you just too embarrassed/shy/peer pressured not to use this level of English?

When I deal with a J teacher and students, some are polite enough to apologize to me before switching to Japanese mode. Many don't even use Japanese when we talk to students, but far too many don't use English at all. I recently criticized the English department for this and urged them to say something, ANYthing to kids outside of class in English, no matter how simple it is (or how bad their own English is).

[Tremac]

Very interesting topic.

I'm a 19 year old Canadian born El Salvadorian/Chinese exchange student in Belgium right now. Being a visible minority, I had minor racist problems growing up(being called "dirty mexican" every time someone was angry at me, etc.) but this.. is unlike anything i've ever had in my life.

When I speak in English, everyone gawks or glares at me, like i'm scum. When I switch from English to French to Spanish, everyone has a heart attack. Agreeing with the post earlier, when I was in Paris, no one wanted to even look at me, let alone give me my order when I was in restaurants.

The language thing, I'm used to it by now, but being discriminated for being "American" I CANNOT stand.

Because they can't tell the accent, and because Canadian/American accents are practically the same, they have stopped me from entering bars, made me throw my food out on buses and refused my money at stores because they were "out of stock".

It probably doesn't help that I have black hair, asiatic eyes and a loud voice. Will I have these problems in Japan, being unfairly discriminated against because i'm Canadian?

[Mike L.]

[JZer]

I have been reading this post and find it interesting. I have never lived in Japan but will try to find a job in Asia when I graduate. I have lived one and a half years in Germany. To start with I agree with the person that said that some westerners might exaggerate their Japanese abilities. I have found that the first time I studied in Germany that some people would try to speak English with me but my German was not really that good but when I studied in Germany again last semester almost no one besides native English speakers would speak English with me. I met one guy who wanted to speak English but he lived in the U.S. and told me that he does not get a lot of opportunities to speak with native speakers, so he wanted to speak English. I even tried to speak English with a girl on the plane ride home from Germany. She was going to study in the U.S., so I thought that since I was leaving Germany that I would help her out by speaking English but she always wanted to revert back to German.

Lucy Snow wrote: