Job Discussion Forums

[VC]

[xiaoyu]

I must have been misinformed... i was told that prostitution was legal around the american bases in s. korea.. of course maybe this has changed in the last 3 or 4 yrs since i heard aobut it....
xiaoyu

[MindTraveller]

I used to think legalizing prostitution would be a workable solution, stipulating only WOMEN could be in the management chain. Then I lived in Taiwan and Korea. I changed my mind.

As a woman, with all the easy prostitution available in Asia, I certainly wouldn't want to be a married Asian woman. The social pressure in business, like drinking, is pretty strong. How could a wife protect herself from her husbands' partners?

Yes, availablity - or lack of availablity of prostitutes - has a profond effect on the overall culture and quality of life for women. Here in the Gulf, the lack of availablity and mixing of the sexes prevent MOST men from indulging in their sexual appetites outside of marriage. Of course, there's prostitution here, but NOTHING like in Korea, Taiwan, the USA or Holland.

And I want to THANK airoch (???) for including the information on prostitution. The tone of voice people used who criticized him was more on a level of ridicule rather than respectful disagreement (probably because disagreement, backed with research, is impossible).

[VC]

[Romulus]

Good /Bad ? Its interesting to see the moral arguments thrown about how the evils of prostitution.But in reality there is a mental/social/physical need for it.Prostitutes come from all walks of life whether it be the high school girl turning tricks to buy a new Prada handbag,the mother who does it to feed her children or the girlfriend who uses sex to get the engagement ring on her finger.When sex is used to gain some benefit it is in effect prostitution!Passing moral judgement is naive,but showing concern about working conditions for human beings is not.There is no real GOOD SCIENCE to explain why the number of prostitutes is growing in Amsterdam it could just as easily be explained by the lax EU immigration controls and economic benefit of working there.Ive heard many ladies from country X working in Japan complain about the working conditions here.But when I ask them how many times they have come here to work the average is three or four times.Prostitution serves a need sometimes too as in farmers here who find it hard to find a wife but must remain to take care of their families and business.Sometimes this allows for both people to find a happier life.Ive witnessed this many times too.

[johnslat]

To my mind, the worst thing about prostitution, a negative it shares with the institution of slavery, is that it dehumanizes both parties involved. This, admittedly, is a " moral point ", but is there any behavior worse than treating people as things?
Regards,
John

[khmerhit]

If you are a western woman in a foreign country, and you have a western boyfriend or husband, you would be advised not to accuse him of visiting prostitutes with out having certain proof that he was fooling around on you. A very possible consequence is that he will begin to frequent prostitutes to get away from your jealous harassment. If he is already doing it, moreover, he might not stop once you start accusing him, so you should probably think twice on what you are about to do and the likely changes it will bring to your relationship. I'm speaking from experience.

Johnslat---- it's in the nature of the contract. You can have a long term contract with another whom you treat horribly, as a thing, and a short-term contract with someone who treats you very well, and whom you treat well in turn. Also, the definition of a sex worker is elastic-- there are different situations, some good and many more which, admittedly, amount to slavery. Anyway, it's a huge subject.

[xiaoyu]

good points from everyone. though there are some i agree with more than others.... i do want to point out though, that prostitution is not limited in it scope. it is not just sex ( as most of us realize) nor is it just females.... the reason i bring it up, is that one of my highschool drinking buddies is currently working in LA for an escort service that does a bit more.... sure he makes 5xs as much as i do, easily. but he isn't happy and he doesn't really appreciate it.... and this is with a long term girlfriend sticking by his side.... how often does that happen?

as ESl teachers (esp the blond/blue eyed ones in NE china) females need to be esp aware of the prostitution problem in a lot of countries. it will affect your work prospects and your social standing at times. and will result in you often being propostitioned (sometimes quite strongly) in public and taxis..... this is a fact. if someone has not experienced it i would say they don't understand the language or are completely unaware of sexual overtures.... the fact that some russian prostitutes in NE china say they are teachers to command a higher rate - got it from a convo with one in dalian- just increases the problem.

xiaoyu

[selmo]

On this topic I would highly reccomend a book called "The skin Trade"
It will make all you blokes with asian beauties question why you have them?

[Roger]

Xiaoyu,
of course, some men do that too! Why, women's emancipation has brought us women's only cabarets a long time ago, ande Taiwanese women are known to pay gigolos. A couple of years ago, a handful of wacky Hong Kong policemen were found out to be on VCD's of the so miscalled "adult" variety! But let's be realistic - a man's, shall we call it "capacity" to perform is somewhat more limited than a woman's.
But, this is NOT the real reason why I sympathise with lonely guys more than with lonely females who peddle their various services...

[xiaoyu]

Roger-

hadn't heard of the male angle with that one. though i guess it is to be expected.

curious, why do you sympathise with lonely men more than lonely women who do that? if there was a hidden reason in the msg i am too tired to pick it out and need some help!

xiaoyu

[Jojo]

Thanks for the important and crucial information. For a new person that is heading abroad it gives me a heads up as to what is to be expected.

The fact is that prostitution is a problem all over the world and is dehumanizing to women. Some do it out of necessity while others have no choice. I think that by becoming aware of it and not partaking in it, you are part of the solution to eradicating the problem.

Thanks Arioch!

[ESL Guru]

Prostitution takes many forms.

1. It is not a woman's thing. Runaway boys fall victim as much as runaway girls. Gigolos abound as much as whores.


2. Prostitution is legal in every country in the world today. It is called marriage. Just ask any divorce lawyer and they will tell you just how much married sex costs.

3. What is the moral difference?

Hire a car, take a person to dinner, wine and dine at $500, then take them to bed; or,

Cut to the chase, take them to bed and give them the $500.

4. The only righteous sex is that within the bonds of marriage but man is in a fallen condition so recreational sex outside of marriage will be with us until our Lord returns.

5. I say legalize it, regulate it, clean it up, tax it. Treat it like any other business.

[arioch36]

Runaway teens are a shame on all Americans. I don't know what it is like in other countries. The number of older men waiting to prey on this group is amazing. The life expctancy of this group is not high. And it is older men, "pimps" that "befriend" this group of children, twist their minds, introduce them to drugs in order to control them, confuse them about love etc.

Roger, I respect you highly. But to compare what grown adult men do to what 99% of the porno and prostitution trade is a tragic mistake. Please consider.

Okay, if a woman police officer, with a degree, wants to sell her body to strangers for extra money, I would say "mei you wenti", no problemas. Notice , I am not saying that a women police officer who feels forced, or is forced to have sex with her boss to keep her job is okay, though this is the real reality.

How many women with good jobs are found selling their bodies for money? Yes, there aremen who willingly give their bodies for sex. They are foolish, but regardless, their reasons for doing so are the pursuit of sexual pleasure, quite different then the female prostitute. The whole dynamics of the very minor situation is totally different (Except for the teenage boys that men abuse)....

Roger, do you really compare this to 99% of the prostitution business? The women who service men for money don't have professional jobs. I think that alone says a lot. If woman really felt prostitution was something they wanted, there would be women police officers selling their bodies for money. So now some women with money ( the proportion is extremely low, a miniscule part of the sex trade) aretrying to find their solace through sexual encounters. It has happened throughout history. This is a liberation I will not applaud. It is not the answer to husbands who are never at home.

If you truly look into prostitution I think it would easy to be find a very different story.

Sexual abuse at home the most likely indicator (not counting the uncountable number of girls in poorer countries outright sold, or kidnapped, or tricked in search of a job, and kidnapped)

Starts at an early age. I don't live in Japan. I se as an outsider, though I have had many college Japanese friends, and plan on possibly teaching there. I am an outsider looking in. But...

Very saddening, disheartening to see how Japan is slowly killing itself, teenage girls, even preteen girls, selling themselves to older men for a fancy purse. Is this what we MEN really want our society to be? Maybe are pants do, but MEN, it is time to be MEN, not D I C K S, pardon my french. But Japanese "men" created this problem. They wanted a society that indulged their every sexual whim as they neglect their pretty wives to buy imaginations with teens younger then their daughters dressed up in schoolgirl costumes. What kind of "man" is this?

As teachers, we have a tremendous power, especially as a foreign teacher. We influence the lives of every student we meet in a way greater then many of our native counterparts, because we stand out much more. I look at Japan, I see a nation lost, suicide pacts formed on the internet, children who never step outside their parents home for years. I see a nation that has lost hope, direction.

In China, most of my students are girls, especially in college, where probably 80% are girls. I am a single guy. Getting on the internet is dangerous for me, what with all the porn. I have bad thoughts sometimes. I have many pretty girls, some of whom have been sexually abused, and so believe that the way to show a man love is sex, because when they were 14 years old, a family member "loved one" gave her attention by coercing her into sexual favours. I hug those who want to be higged, and sometimes it is too close, and my body drives me crazy.

I travel, stay in the hotel, have the phone ring at 10:00 and a pretty voice says Ni hao. A voice belonging not to a girl with a profesion such as police or teacher, looking to make a little extra money, not looking for a little fun...but the voice of a girl who knows no other life, and would keep little of the money I gave her. And if invited her up and just talked to her, she would be beaten later.

I thank God I have not crossed the line yet in China, giving my body pleasure at the cost of supporting an industry that ruins lives. If I care about the girl, I would just giver her the money, yes?

Some day I might give in. On that day, I am not a MAN, but an animal who cares only about his immediate pleasure, not about the society he lives in. I fear sometimes, as I develop close connections to some of these girls, that one day I will falter, and have a relationship with a student. All I can do is ask God not to let that happen. Because on that day, I am no longer a man, or a teacher...but a predator, a scum, no better than a man that Abuse his special relationship with his daughter or his niece.

Dear God, I am weak, and definitely not the best of your servants. I have done many wrong things. Sometimes I go to the wrong places on the internet. I may or may not be a good teacher. But please never let me betray the teacher student relationship in this way, no matter how weak I am. And if/when I meet girls who have been trained by older "men"/scum to prostitute themselves, please let me not think of myself, and my momentary sexual pleasure. Please help me be a man.

Chris in Henan, signing off

[ESL Guru]

Ditto and Amen Chris!

Keep the faith brother!