Job Discussion Forums

[Fortigurn]

[TaoyuanSteve]

I spent quite a while without a scooter and found it impractical not to have one. If you are finding you are saving money not having one, you obviously aren't going many places. MRT doesn't take you everywhere. And it costs me 70 nt to fill the tank of my scooter; that's good for most of the week. Cheaper than MRT by far (assuming I lived in Taipei and had it as an option, which I don't).

It's ok for someone in their first year here to get around on transit. It's especially ok if you live centrally. But sooner or later you're going to want to go where you want to go, when you want to go there. A lot of great day trips out of Taipei are just not doable on transit. I would argue you just can't see the best of this place without your own transportation.

[Fortigurn]

[TaoyuanSteve]

Yes, I'm in Taoyuan. You don't think I've spent time in Taipei? And no, you can't get everywhere on transit, no matter how much extra (wasted) time you allow. I'd love to see try to get to some of the spots I've been without your own transport.

My point was and is you can get by, if you live in central Taipei, without a scooter. Day to day, getting to work and such, the MRT is great. I'd use it alot if I lived there. But on your days off, you're still going to want to have the freedom to get out of the city and get to some of the better spots around. Taxis and buses can't be found everywhere. Your quality of life here goes up alot when you get a scooter; it goes up a step further when you get a car.

Yes, transit in central Taipei is great. But I'd still have my own transport, even if I lived there. 45,000nt gets you a shiny new 125 scooter, but used ones in perfectly good condition go for as little as 10k. Once you have it, a scooter costs next to nothing to run. Scooters are just too cheap and too convenient to overlook.

[mushi]

I'm in Taoyuan as well, and I can give my perspective on scooter owning. From my point of view, the extra cost associated with owning a scooter is minimal compared to the convenience. I am here for about a year, and got a scooter as soon as I got my ARC. That's what it is though, convenience. Many of my coworkers get by fine without one, but I felt it was totally worth it.

I paid $14000NT for a used one from a shop referred by a co-worker, and I plan on selling it when I leave to get a large portion of that back. If I can sell it for $10000NT when I leave, that's only a cost of $4000 NT for 12 months of use. Coming in at less than $350NT a month, plus around $650NT a month for gas and oil changes, ~$1000 NT a month is worth it to me for having my own transportation. There's always potential for me not getting that $10000NT price I want and/or something going massively wrong with the scooter costing a couple thousand to fix, but I chose to accept that potential.

There are risks though, you'd probably have to see if you can handle the driving here to see if you'd like one. Some people don't like the close calls which do happen relatively frequently, but I personally don't have any problems with driving here. So far (~5 months) I've been unscathed (knock on wood) and I have a ton of fun driving. The last few days it was really nice here in the morning and driving the roads at the foothills near Tigerhead Mountain was a blast.

Things to remember: It can save a bunch of time. A bus ride to work made me leave an hour and a half before class due to needing two buses that were relatively unpredictable (sometimes I'd get to class with 45 minutes to spare, other times 5 minutes). Now, on a scooter, it's 15 minutes, consistently. For me, it also opened up restaurants. Places I liked to eat but were out of the way instantly became regular places. Also remember that if weather is too severe or you don't feel comfortable driving, public transportation is always available to you and you don't have to drive.

But this is all from someone living in Taoyuan. I have friends in Taipei that have been here longer than I have and felt no need for it due to the excellent MRT system. I think the best idea would be to decide once you have all the pertinent information after you arrive.

[clark.w.griswald]

I think what it comes down to Fortigurn is that you haven�t had the experience of scooter ownership here so it is difficult for you to see the point of view that others are trying to present. As I mentioned earlier, I didn�t have a scooter for my first couple of years here, and I never felt the need to get one. It wasn�t till I got one that I realized how much I had been missing out on. The other posters make very valid points in that scooters give you easy access to places that are not easily accessible on public transport or even on foot. Times money as they say, and I can totally agree that travel time is cut down considerably when you have a scooter.

I think that you have oversimplified my earlier comments in your quoting. As I mentioned I spent probably more than twice as much on my most recent scooter than most people spend. I agree that there are plenty of scooters out there for under NTD25,000 but they are a bit of mixed bag, however it is probably safe to say that the majority are reasonable.

[markholmes]

Owning a scooter in Taiwan made my life so much more preasurable and convenient that I think I probably would not have lived in Taiwan as long had I not had one. The freedom of being able to drive over Yangminshan and then take the coast road to Danshui on a sunny Saturday morning is immeasurable.

I lived in Kaohsiung and Taipei, and yes Taipei was definitely the more dangerous of the two places. For one there are few buses in Kaohsiung with which to compete. Buses are the thing that scared me the most when I lived in Taipei.

When I moved to Taiwan I had never ridden a motorbike and didn't wanted to, until I realised how impractical it was not to have one. Now you can't get me off them!!

I discovered places in Taiwan that I never would have found on a bus or in a taxi.

Scooter costs are very little. I paid NT$12,000 for a 125cc Yamaha, about NT$100 on gas a week and maybe NT$3000 a year in maintenance. A bloody bargain. When I left Taiwan I sold the scooter for NT$10,000.

[Pop Fly]

If I may add my opinion:

Aristotle is wrong to suggest being a foreigner automatically puts you at fault. Quite the opposite in my experience.

I crashed into the back of a parked cab without a driver's license and still got a settlement from his insurance company. Only had to accept 25% blame.

Another friend of mine got cut off in a small town and recieved a cash settlement on the spot.

I, in retrospect, highly suggest having a d/l. I got lucky, you probably won't. Also, buy a Charley (Chinese Harley). They are these 150 CC motorcycles that you see everywhere. I picked mine up for $20,000. Whenever I ride a scooter now, I feel incredibly uncomfortable. Wide wheel base for me.

Others suggest that the MRT is a preferable way to travel. I agree, especially if you are on a budget. You can buy a bike after you pocket a couple of paychecks. But that becomes a moot point if you aren't planning on settling in or around Taipei. When I lived in HsinChu, life became much easier once I got a bike. Now I ride a motorcycle because it's quicker and more pleasant.

So, settle in Taipei, use the MRT to begin with, then maybe rent a bike for a month or two to see if you like it. PM me if you want details on how to rent one. Then shop for the right bike if you do decide to risk heavan and earth on the mean streets of Taiwan.

[markholmes]

[Fortigurn]

[clark.w.griswald]

[markholmes]

I think what Fortigurn is saying is that, essentially, without beating around the bush, without a doubt in his mind, without ever having ridden a scooter and never having had that experience, but also totally not wanting that experience, being totally happy on public transport and never using taxis, even though he will miss some of the best places in Taiwan because he won't be able to get there and actually will never know what he's missing, no matter how odd us former and present 'scooter riders' find that position, he, Fortigurn reserves the right not to ride a scooter and openly express that opinion on this forum for the benefit of the original poster, without having his posts picked apart and turned into a battle of wits as so often happens on said forum. However odd I and others may find that position I think we would all agree that that is his right, except for old Che Guervara up there who would probably disagree on the grounds that Taiwan is a fascist state and that all foreigners are classified as rabid monkeys to be disposed of and therefore not entitled to ride scooters or travel on public transport.

Fortigurn, how do you get your shopping home

And just to finish off on a completely irrelevent note, I met Rupert Boneham from Survivor Pearl Island and Survivor All Stars today.
He's a lot smaller than you might imagine.

[Fortigurn]

[Fortigurn]

[TaoyuanSteve]

Fortigun, I'd like to say I appreciate your input on this issue. You offer another point of view and this is valuable.

That said, I do not think you have sufficient experience with scooter ownership and riding to really understand alot of what others have been saying. Your comments about traffic shows this. You don't get stuck in traffic with a motorcycle; you simply ride around it. You don't get caught up in lines of traffic; you go straight to the front. This makes scooters faster than cars, faster than buses and (because of the possibility of going direct to your destination) often faster than MRT.

Secondly, your point about accessibility of places is Taiwan is uninformed. Yes, Yangmingshan and Kenting are accessible by transit, but these are major tourist centers. There are many places not on the map, so to speak, that are not accessible unless you have your own transport. Kaohsiung? A major city. You get to it by one of numerous ways, though last time I went there by car. Green Island? Of course you don't get there by motorcycle. You get there by air or sea. But lets' pick some other places shall we? How about the ancient forest along the north cross island highway? What about Shi2 men2 reservoir in Taoyuan county? What about numerous great hikes in places without names? What about the BBQ your friends invite you to in some out of the way locale? When I say you can't get everywhere on transit, I mean it. Major cities have transit. The countryside and wilderness do not.

Finally, I'm not sure about others here, but I'm not trying to convert you to scooter ownership, if scooter ownership is not for you. However, you have raised points and we have raised counterpoints. Those reading can hopefully get a clear view of both sides of the issue and make up their own minds.