|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
 Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 2:54 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Nighthawk
just as an aside:
I know you are probably not married but dont have kids, but assuming you did- if you were paying BIG money to educate your kids (yearly fees at international schools are from 1.5 million to 2 million yen per year per child in Tokyo) I would think you would want the best teachers that money can buy, and have the best training and are serious, dedicated and qualified teachers, and not someone that just came in with the last storm.
My daughters teacher was a teaching assistant 2 years ago, lacked solid teaching Int/school experience but was hired on a recommendation to the principal to teach in the classroom with another teacher. She made a lot of mistakes in her first year teaching on her own (even with a class of 5 year olds) but has now developed some professional skills and we are happy with her teaching.
You may feel that 4 years is a long time to develop some skills and get professional qualifications to work at an international school, but just remember that parents (most of whom are working professionals, and own their own businesses) are paying 100-200,000 yen per month (I know families with 2-3 children in international school classes) and they want to ensure their tuition is being well used on acquiring professional staff, hence the demand for qualified and certified teachers. Remember the teachers are not just out of college teaching on a lark at a conversation school where the students dont know any better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| It does look like they would expect me to get a teacher�s license from my state. I can't see myself going back to school for four years to get licensed to teach K-12 ESL, and I'm pretty sure that's what it would take where I am. |
Like Paul wrote, that's entirely up to you, but if you don't have the qualifications, you shouldn't expect to have the job handed to you, or to have the employer look the other way, especially when there already are such qualified people here looking for that job. I'm trying not to sound snobbish or uppity, but that statement sounds a lot like things said by the "backpacker" mentality (Gimme a job, I don't have a degree. Whine, whine!).
| Quote: |
| school and university trains them to be be willing and obedient servants for the companies they work out and teaches them to be team players. Many do not know how to use initiative, independence and if my students are any indication, lack common sense. they have to be told how to do everything and have things spelt out for them. |
So true! In fact, it is a known fact that companies hire graduates based on the school's reputation, not the student's grades. They want blank slates that they can mold in their own image.
For more interesting reading, look at the Japanese guy who recently won the Nobel for the blue LED. What a work situation he went through! The only reason he succeeded was because he went against the grain. As for a couple of other recent (rare) Japanese Nobel laureates, they constantly espouse the virtues of Japanese scientists learning western ways of communication and working together, sharing information, being innovative, etc.
| Quote: |
| Now students are graduating, cant find jobs, companies are laying off workers and students are left wondering whats the point of getting an education when you cant get a job at the end of it. |
More than that, since lifetime employment is becoming a thing of the past, people are opting not to go to college in the first place. How many universities shut down in just the last year? Read the articles on www.eltnews.com. (I realize that another reason they are shutting down is the declining birth rate, so don't get me started on that note.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nighthawk
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 60
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Glenski wrote:
| Quote: |
| Their poor record of sharing international patents stands out |
PAULH wrote:
| Quote: |
| now the large companies are in the red, cant seel their products and are now throwing all their small suppliers overboard. |
You guys are losing me here. Glenski, what do you mean by �poor record of sharing international patents?� PAULH, what do you mean �can�t seel their products?�
Glenski wrote:
| Quote: |
| For more interesting reading, look at the Japanese guy who recently won the Nobel for the blue LED. What a work situation he went through! The only reason he succeeded was because he went against the grain. As for a couple of other recent (rare) Japanese Nobel laureates, they constantly espouse the virtues of Japanese scientists learning western ways of communication and working together, sharing information, being innovative, etc. |
Glenski wrote:
| Quote: |
| since lifetime employment is becoming a thing of the past, people are opting not to go to college in the first place. |
PAULH wrote:
| Quote: |
| Now students are graduating, cant find jobs, companies are laying off workers and students are left wondering whats the point of getting an education when you cant get a job at the end of it. Some of them are going to American universities in Japan or getting MBAs or CPA qualifictaions. |
Why are they going to American universities? Do they intend to move to America and look for work, or are they just trying to learn more about America and Americans, thinking that will help them alleviate the unemployment problem in Japan? Also, if they�re just bypassing college, then what do they plan to do � just take bad jobs at companies and hope they can work their way up and stay around? Or get some experience in entry level jobs and then wait for a better job offer from another company as they skip around like a pebble on a lake for the rest of their lives?
PAULH wrote:
| Quote: |
| Fathers work 60 hours a week at the office and come home at 11pm and their kids dont recognise them. Wives have their own lives outside their husbands. |
What do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the wives are working too or that they�re cheating on their husbands or both? And are the husbands always really away �at work� for that matter?
Glenski, I�ll send you an e-mail asking for that pluses and minuses of living in Japan listing. I have Excel, so I�ll be able to read it.  Also, I really didn�t catch how many total vacation days you said you really get teaching at your private high school. By vacation days, I mean time off that is actually time off � i.e., time that you don't have to do anything related to work/time that you could spend contemplating your navel or going on a trip to Timbuktu or putting lights on your Christmas tree or writing to newbies until your hands bleed.
Oh, and I didn�t think to ask one question. Which do you think are better places to teach � public or private schools [(meaning junior high schools, high schools, and universities)? Are there even any private universities? If so, what percent of students take that route?]
Alright, later. This has been a good discussion. Thanks again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lucy Snow
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 218
Location: US
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 8:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Why are they going to American universities? Do they intend to move to America and look for work, or are they just trying to learn more about America and Americans, thinking that will help them alleviate the unemployment problem in Japan? Also, if they�re just bypassing college, then what do they plan to do � just take bad jobs at companies and hope they can work their way up and stay around? Or get some experience in entry level jobs and then wait for a better job offer from another company as they skip around like a pebble on a lake for the rest of their lives? |
They're hoping that an MBA or CPA will give them an extra "edge" over their competition.
There's been a trend over the past few years of young people opting to be "freeters"(not sure if I'm spelling it right in romajii)--taking part-time jobs, making just enough money to buy the latest mobile telephone or other toy. I had students in a private university who told me that they didn't want the same kind of lives their parents had, and were consciously choosing a different path. What they were going to do when they were older I had no idea--most of them didn't seem to have thought through their decision very well.
| Quote: |
What do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the wives are working too or that they�re cheating on their husbands or both? And are the husbands always really away �at work� for that matter?
|
Depends on how old their children are. When their children are in primary school, the mothers are expected to give a lot of time to the schools in various ways--PTA, etc. As the children get older, many women take up "hobbies" like learning English, flower arranging or tea ceremony.
I don't know if there's more infidelity in Japan than anywhere else in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nighthawk wrote: |
PAULH wrote:
| Quote: |
| now the large companies are in the red, cant sell their products and are now throwing all their small suppliers overboard. |
The whole Japanese economy rests on the Japanese7 ability to make things and export them overseas, Sony Matsushita, that big screen TV in your living room.
If you are in the US and made redundant, have no job and already have 2 cars and a big screen TV in the living room you dont need another one do you nor can you afford a new car can you? Japanese houses are stuffed with electric appliances and no place to put them, sometimes the breadwinner has had his bonus cut in half or just lost his job.
They are making all this "stuff" but less people are buying, they get less orders and they have to lay off people.
Nissan was billions of dollars in debt here until the French CEO came in got rid of half the suppliers and closed 21 factories. last year they made a profit for the first time in 1o years. they actually make cars that people want to buy, they make few of them and they make the parts interchangeable between models
PAULH wrote:
| Quote: |
| Fathers work 60 hours a week at the office and come home at 11pm and their kids dont recognise them. Wives have their own lives outside their husbands. |
Wives generally give up working when they have kids but when the husband leaves at 6 in the morning and comes back at 10 at night, she develops her own friends and interests, learns eikaiwa. Sometimes the husband is sent to work by himself in another city for 4-5 years and leaves the wife and kids behind because of school. Great for the marriage relationship. Yes, wives also cheat on their husbands.
What do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the wives are working too or that they�re cheating on their husbands or both? And are the husbands always really away �at work� for that matter?
. |
| nighthawk wrote: |
Glenski wrote:
| Quote: |
| since lifetime employment is becoming a thing of the past, people are opting not to go to college in the first place. |
PAULH wrote:
| Quote: |
| Now students are graduating, cant find jobs, companies are laying off workers and students are left wondering whats the point of getting an education when you cant get a job at the end of it. Some of them are going to American universities in Japan or getting MBAs or CPA qualifications. |
Why are they going to American universities? Do they intend to move to America and look for work, or are they just trying to learn more about America and Americans, thinking that will help them alleviate the unemployment problem in Japan?
I graduated from temple University in japan and about 50% of the students in my masters course were Japanese. Temple is not recognised as a university in Japan but students will do the Masters anyway to gain training and experience in proper teaching methods which are not yet offered at Japanese universities.
CPA (Accounting degree) or MBA from Temple etc is seen as a valuable qualification to put on ones resume and many seek jobs working at foreign compnaies doing business in japan.
Also, if they�re just bypassing college, then what do they plan to do � just take bad jobs at companies and hope they can work their way up and stay around? Or get some experience in entry level jobs and then wait for a better job offer from another company as they skip around like a pebble on a lake for the rest of their lives?
Oh, and I didn�t think to ask one question. Which do you think are better places to teach � public or private schools [(meaning junior high schools, high schools, and universities)?
Boy you ask a lot of questions!!!
Why do some become high school teachers in the US? Why do some go onto graduate school and becoem professors. Different strokes for different folks. Glenski prefers high school I prefer older kids. "Better" is a relative term as it depends on what you enjoy doing, and what you are looking for in a teaching career. and what you are qualified to do.
Are there even any private universities? If so, what percent of students take that route?]
Here are the figures for 1996 (4 year) (2 year junior colleges)
National 98 33
Local state (prefectural) 53 63
Private universities 425 502
Total 576 598
(before you ask anymore questions, be advised that that many womens colleges have a four year college and a junior two year college on the same campus with the same administrations and funding etc but they are treated as separate entities, like those Russian dolls with the dolls stacked inside)
Alright, later. This has been a good discussion. Thanks again. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Their poor record of sharing international patents stands out |
By this, I mean they don't open their patent offices to international companies the same way that other countries do. It's definitely not a share & share alike attitude with the Japanese, but they certainly want their cake and eat it, too, when it comes to using other countries' patent rights.
| Quote: |
| Why are they going to American universities? Do they intend to move to America and look for work, or are they just trying to learn more about America and Americans, thinking that will help them alleviate the unemployment problem in Japan? |
Most are not looking to live in America. They want the degrees (usually MBAs) to bring back to Japan and get promotions or bigger salaries. Some are also catching on that the Japanese system of doing business isn't always the most successful, so they want the international experience. In the science field, they want the freshness, independence, and creativity bug that doesn't exist in Japan.
| Quote: |
| if they�re just bypassing college, then what do they plan to do � just take bad jobs at companies and hope they can work their way up and stay around? Or get some experience in entry level jobs and then wait for a better job offer from another company as they skip around like a pebble on a lake for the rest of their lives? |
There's a phenomenon in Japan called the "freeters". These are young people who choose to float from one temp job to another, and after they quit each one, they spend the money on some extravagance like an overseas trip. They are sick of the notion of being tied to a humdrum business world, and especially now with the lack of lifetime employment guarantees. I liken this attitude to the younger generation's revolution in America in the late 60's and early 70's.
| Quote: |
PAULH wrote: Quote:
Fathers work 60 hours a week at the office and come home at 11pm and their kids dont recognise them. Wives have their own lives outside their husbands.
What do you mean exactly? Are you saying that the wives are working too or that they�re cheating on their husbands or both? And are the husbands always really away �at work� for that matter? |
If Paul doesn't mind me responding to this, here's my take. The typical Japanese businessman puts in ungodly hours (whether he's actually doing work is debatable in my opinion) plus after hours socializing as part of the business world here. I would estimate they put in more than 60 hours a week. And, yes, this often includes Saturdays, so by the time they get home, the kids are in bed, and they have about 15 minutes with the wife. She accepts this because he brings home the paycheck, which she is usually responsible for using. He gets an allowance for the week from her, she makes the major decisions about buying things (including cars, furniture), and she spends her days taking care of household duties, the children, and then (oftentimes) going on a trip without the husband. What Paul wrote had nothing (or at least very little) to do with either spouse cheating on the other. It's just a long, hard workaholic life for the typical businessman here.
As an aside, I'm in that rut, too. I work 6 days a week at my high school, and from Monday to Friday, I usually work from 7:30 to 7:00. My wife accepts this because her (Japanese) father put in the same hours, but she insists that I don't take any work home or discuss work at home.
| Quote: |
| I really didn�t catch how many total vacation days you said you really get teaching at your private high school. By vacation days, I mean time off that is actually time off � i.e., time that you don't have to do anything related to work/time that you could spend contemplating your navel or going on a trip to Timbuktu or putting lights on your Christmas tree or writing to newbies until your hands bleed. |
As a full-time teacher, I get about...
2 days off during Golden Week, when the whole "vacation" period is actually 5-7 days.
1 week off during summer "vacation" even though there aren't classes for the whole 3 week period.
2 weeks off for the New Year and Xmas season, despite the whole period lasting about 3 weeks at my school.
pretty much zero time off between end of year (March) and start of new school term), perhaps a week if I'm lucky.
and all of the dozen national holidays.
That totals about 6 weeks off, nowhere near the 5 months that Paul mentioned.
| Quote: |
| Which do you think are better places to teach � public or private schools [(meaning junior high schools, high schools, and universities)? |
I have no way to compare private HS with public, except to read what people on the JET program write (www.bigdaikon.com). I don't even know if JET ALTs take up the majority of potential teaching job slots at public schools. There are thousands of JETs there, you know. I wish someone working as a non-JET in a public school would respond here. Perhaps the book Paul mentioned ("Japanese Higher Education as Myth by Brian McVeigh) has some insight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
"As an aside, I'm in that rut, too. I work 6 days a week at my high school, and from Monday to Friday, I usually work from 7:30 to 7:00. My wife accepts this because her (Japanese) father put in the same hours, but she insists that I don't take any work home or discuss work at home."
Glenski and Lucy
This is not to brag but as well as my full time job I work part time at another university two days a week, do extra non-teaching related work on weekends, have just taken on two privates and am working my way PT through another graduate degree. I have very very little free time but fortunately i enjoy what I do but I have become a bit of a workaholic.Maintaining good balance, getting regular exercise and eating properly are big things I worry about with working long hours.
Fortunately I live next door to my university (literally) and walk to my office in less than 5 minutes and am home for lunch and dinner when kids are home. Most Japanese have a 1 or 2 hour train ride morning and night to get to and from work or work overtime at the office as Glenski mentioned.
I dont see my paycheck and it gets handed over as soon as I get it- I receive an allowance of 30,000 yen a month (about $250) which lasts about 2 weeks, which is why I take on the privates. All my other income is swallowed up in expenses- we have a fairly sizeable nest egg saved up as well as rental income in New Zealand.
We discuss work and classes (she helps me remember dates (school events etc ) and administration, test deadlines etc) but my biggest concern at the moment is finding a job for next year so that takes up a lot opf my time at the moment as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I know about your schedule, Paul, so I don't see what you wrote as bragging. One question, though. If you live so close to the university, how do you spend 30,000 yen in 2 weeks? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Glenski
It works out to less than a 1,000 yen a day but usually out of that I will pay for things like video rental (3-4 times a week) private train travel to visit friends (not commuting to work) as we play a board game regularly and travel into Osaka; I have recently been buying things for my mountain bike and the dog; newspaper and canned drinks on the way to work- it all adds up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Paul, You might want to ask your wife for a raise. Or maybe you and your kids can unionize. I think with your qualifications (father, dog owner, outdoor enthusiast, and board game experience) you should be able to get at least 40,000 yen and a few extra days off a year. It sounds like your wife is obviously running the family for profit and doesn't take into consideration things like family member happiness and domestic fulfillment.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:38 am Post subject: brevity |
|
|
Has no one posting here ever heard about brevity in postings ? People are more likey to read and respond to a carefully-written, short post than to a long rambling monologue.
Be concise if you want a dialogue. It is true in speech and in writing - especially in this medium. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Has no one posting here ever heard about brevity in postings ? People are more likey to read and respond to a carefully-written, short post than to a long rambling monologue. |
Just trying to be thorough. And, I get plenty of responses whether I write long or short messages. What I hate is a short message that doesn't inform me enough to provide an adequate response. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
