Job Discussion Forums

[little horsey]

So I got sort of a quasi-offer via e-mail today and now I'm feeling a little let down. You see, it's from a university in Qingdao, where I've wanted to go for some time now.

Here's what's bothering me:

+ 2700 RMB/month
+ 12-16 class hours
+ no return airfare, unless I'm considered a good worker and I decide to work more than 14 hours a week.

So apparently it's between me and some American guy for this job. The person I'm in contact with says that I'm more qualified and talks to me (well, types) as if I have the position, if I want it. I'm having a hard time believing that the competition for this job is that tight or that this American guy even exists, but I guess that's not too important.

I know I can negotiate this. Where do I start? I like the amount of class hours. After reading posts on here, this pay seems so low and the thought of no return airfare offered is sort of insulting. Where do you suggest I go from here?

I'm expecting another offer any time now from a college in Qingdao that asked for a photo and no resume (!!!). I sent both anyways. My hopes are not so high for this school.

Thanks for any help you can give me here. I'm quite new at this and will greatly appreciate any advice that comes my way. Hit me up for a cold brew if you're ever in Qingdao!

[Minhang Oz]

Xiao Ma [as your handle translates]

Consider....you'll be working for two months just to cover a return airfare!
To put your salary in perspective, my wife is a Chinese English teacher: you know, the kind who get bagged on this forum. She works a tough 20 hour week, but at least gets a decent salary-50% more than they're offering you.

However, if you're looking at more than a year in China, this could be a useful way to get a foot [hoof?] in the door, as you've been involved in this forum for a while now, and clearly badly want to come here.

Maybe keep looking for a while...does it really have to be Qingdao? Shanghai and Guangdong certainly pay better.

[Wolf]

If that's a public university, then the pay doesn't surprise me. Do you have any experience? TEFL certifications? An MA in Applied Linguistics? A teaching degree? If you have one or more of these then you should be able wrangle a little more. But be warned - my uni has a pay cap of 4000 per month - and to get that you need an MA in TESOL plus experience! These things, I've been told, get semi - set by the government. Standardized pay all over the province and all that. The 8000 jobs you read about here are NOT the public universities. Although most people work on the side to suppliament thier income.

Will you only stay the year? If so, they may as well give you a plane ticket an no salry rather than a salry and no plane ticket. Depending on where you're from, you'll have to save a good portion of your salry - your year's income - to get home. That's silly. If they want to employ you, get them to agree in writing (for what it's worth) to fund your fare back. If they want to employ a FE then it's only fair they pay the fare.

I don't know much about Qingdao, but really low hours for really low pay is what Chinese uni teaching is all about.

Edit: Low hours/low pay is what it's about in the interior, anyway.

[Roger]

Last time I worked for a salary below 3000 was last century! I would still perhaps consider this offer if it was not that downright foul-smelling.
Withholding airfare is quasi-illegal. The PSB are under olrder to enforce the rule that any expat working for a (public) school must be offered a one-way ticket or the equivalent amount in RMB. In your case, I would ask them to assure you to pay for your work visa and the related costs the obtention of it incurs such as the medical examination, as well as the costs for a residence permit and a work permit!
If they oblige (ask for a contract specimen), you can consider the job, though it really sounds like a bad offer!
I would say 3500 to 5000 is more in line with current pay scale!

[MartinK]

...

[hubei]

12-16 hrs for 2700rmb. No air fare and competition (bull) from some
american..Forget it.

They're trying to pull a fast one on you. Don't let them take you for a ride.

Those *beep* will pocket your airfare after submitting the claim.

Tell them to take their job and shaft it in their you know where.

[little horsey]

Thanks for the help.

I do wish to stay in China for at least a year, maybe more. I guess it doesn't have to be Qingdao and I've wondered if the way I've gone about this backwards...I read lots about China before even looking at jobs and I picked an area that looked the best to me - Qingdao. Maybe I should have looked at jobs first, then research the area?

I do have some qualifications, but little experience. I have a certificate from a Canadian university that's apparently the equivalent to an American TESL masters degree (Canada doesn't award professional masters degrees, only academic). Also, I have a four-year honours degree in Linguistics and Applied Languages. I do have some supervised teaching experience through my TESL certificate, as well as some one-on-one tutoring experience through volunteer work.

So would it be crazy for me to couter-offer them 5400 RMB (double)? Plus airfare? Etc?

This school is Qingdao Ocean University, by the way. I've spoken with friend from China from that area and they believe that this university is the better one of the universities in Qingdao. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best for teachers...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As suspected, I was greeted with another offer (not a roundabout offer, like the one above) when I check my e-mail this morning. It's at Shandong Foreign Trade Vocational
College in Qingdao.

Here are some specifics:

+ 3300 RMB/month
+ 14 hrs of oral English/week
+ "a one-way economy international air ticket from Qingdao to the international airport nearest to Party B's usual home place of residence" OR 4000 RMB (instead of ticket)
+ 2200 RMB travel allowance

How about this deal? I'm a little concerned ever since they didn't even really ask for my resume. I sent it anyways, but I doubt they even read it. They must've liked my photo (!).

It seems like I don't have to dive into anything very quickly. These are the first schools I've contacted and they both offered me something. I'm sure something else will come up. For now, I'll try to counter-offer these schools and apply at some others.

Thanks again...

[Roger]

My advice: Don't show any despair! Don't accept the first job at any rate, nor the second, under the conditions you mentioned! Maybe you chose the wrong season - they are more likely to hire in two months' time when the new term begins! Shop around - Dalian is also very nice, very good climate, similar latitude. Shanghai is hoter and has more jobs... Guangdong has the most of them.

In eight years-plus, I have never accepted anything less than 5000 RMB in airfare reimbursement! It has always been a flat 5000 RMB, or actual air ticket costs (which I never needed to fly back).

Once again: don't let on that you are in need of a job subito! Take your time - your should be getting 3000 or more, better more, and airfare and a work visa.
However, I forgot to add in my previous answer that public schools seldom pay salary during summer recess (from June through August). You normally have a twelve-month visa, but get paid for ten months!

[Bertrand]

The salary you mention is an insult to anyone other than the usual 'EF-type' teacher; viz., someone who is a pisshead, unqualified, and totally unexperienced. I would write back to them and demand that salary A WEEK. Otherwise, what sort of teacher do they expect/want?

You write that "I have a certificate from a Canadian university that's apparently the equivalent to an American TESL masters degree (Canada doesn't award professional masters degrees, only academic)."

What do you mean by "apparently"? Do you know or not? If not, why have you not found out? You might be okay as China is one of the only states in which "apparent equivalents" are not thrown straight into the bin.

A TESL masters can be an academic award.

[Minhang Oz]

Have you checked the "International Jobs" section at the top of this page lately? There's several better than what you're looking at. The one in Zhuhai looks tempting-I thought hard before turning it down last year. PM if interested in Shanghai, I may be able to provide a lead.

[little horsey]

Bertrand,

I have been marketting it as such. The head of the program says that it is the equivalent and has said she will give us a written statement if it is ever called into question. She used to teach in the States and says that the programs are identical.

Minhang Oz,

I have been checking the international jobs section and yes, I inquired about that one. Is that a normal-sized salary for a place like that? I have started to broaden my focus, so I will be PMing you about Shanghai. Thanks a lot!

Roger,

As always, thanks for your advice and encouragement. I am going to keep looking and not settle for the first semi-decent offer that comes my way. I've applied to jobs in Dalian and around Guandong. Macau sounds like a nice place too... Oh, the possibilities!


I responded to the initial low offer by saying there was no way I could accept such a low offer, etc. and the school responded by saying that "sometimes money can not buy wonderful experience". I agree, but sometimes lack of it has the ability to cause a miserable experience. They're going to get back to me next week with another offer.

[MyTurnNow]

LH,
gotta join the chorus here.
These salaries are ridiculous and the lack of adequate airfare bonus just adds insult to injury.

Unis can be great teaching environments but the salaries are unconscionable in many cases. I think a lot of their hiring managers know they can't compete and have great stories to try and press you in; your "great experience" citation is just such an example. My personal favorite is the "But it's such an honor for you to come and teach here!", to which I respond with hails of derisive laughter.

Stand firm and don't buy the line. If decent teachers stop taking these pittances perhaps eventually the worker bees at the various bureaus will see the light, and the situation will improve.

A lot of teachers won't take anything under 5000. I think this is still too low; 6000 with full benefits ought to be a minimum but I suppose 5000 for light hours is tolerable. Personally I won't take anything under 8000, but I give GREAT resume.

You didn't come to China just to work and watch TV, right? Remember travel and shopping and adventure and really wild things? These things take money. Make sure you get it.

MT

[senor boogie woogie]

(Disclaimer: I know you dislike me for being biased against Canadians, but please listen)


2700 RMB a month for 14 hours a week minimum? That comes out to be 48 RMB and change. With an apartment? Is it a single? Will they give you a computer? Hot water?

I think personally that it is OK to work for a university, if it is a jumping off point for something better. The University is more or less your landlord, and you are paying for your roof by supplying classes to the school. You can do privates or work for another school part time for more money.

For me, this job should pay 4600 RMB. 5600 RMB (100 per hour) minus 1000 RMB per month rent for your place. I would personally shop around. A good website is www.chinatefl.com.

SENOR
_____________________

"They call me the working man! I guess that's what I am!!
Geddy Lee-Canadian

[gerard]

Just for the record my contract states 500US for airfare at the end of each term with a travel perk of I forget how much (it is standard.)

And the reason isn't because they like us so much---it is a by-law.

[little horsey]

Senor, I don't hate you. This is a message board and if we were to meet, I might just give you a big old hug!

And now back to business...

So QOU came back with another offer. It has two options and they are as follows:

Option 1
+ pretty much the same as before...
+ if I work 16 hours per week, they will pay my airfare.

Option 2
+ teach to adults (other teachers, I believe?).
+ 14 hours per week.
+ return airfare.
+ 3000 RMB per month.
+ more hours = more money, etc.

I don't think I'd go for the first option, but maybe the second. Does that sound reasonable for a university teaching position? Should I hold out for more from them/others? I don't want to seem greedy or anything, but I just want to get what I deserve.

Thanks...