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"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
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Lynn
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 696
Location: in between
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 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:31 am Post subject: |
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I scored a perfect on the listening section of the Japanese language proficiency test III and only missed one on test II. How did I do it? Why were my listening skills so high?
One huge reason was TV. But the thing is I LOVED Japanese TV. Many people on this forum complain about it, but I loved it. I loved variety shows. I loved documentaries, dramas, pop music specials. You name it. I was so into it that I just had to know what was going on. I recorded my favorite shows and watched it live once. And then I'd watch it again and pause it to look up words I didn't know.
Another thing I did was try to write the lyrics to my favorite Japanese pop songs. Why? Because I wanted to practice at home and then belt it out in the karaoke box. This proved very interesting, though, because I just had to guess the lyrics by sound. I'd bring in my notes to my coworkers and they would just try to figure out what I heard.
Oh....I love learning languages! |
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dyak
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| This program is quite good for testing and building your vocab, and it's free! |
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lozwich
Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| On the subject of taking tests, do you think they actually help? I'm studying for an exam at the moment, and the classes are really boring, but they do make me do lots of homework and study. I also don't know what I will do with the diploma once I have it, but do you think it's worth it anyway, simply because in the process of studying for the exam, I'm learning lots of things? |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| vre wrote: |
Maybe your schedule is too tight or you're too lazy or can't afford lessons etc...
How do you improve your skills in the language of the country you live in (if different to L1)?
Any useful and practical suggestions? |
Immersion is the best way to learn a new language. Necessity is the mother of all invention and the same is true here. If you live among the French, you will learn French whether you like it or not unless you're living in a cave.
In fact, language courses are probably the worst method of learning a new language. It is a filtered environment that has nothing to do with the real world; the teachers are mostly bad and L1 is often used in class.
If language was as precise as mathematics, 99% of all EFLers would be out of a job. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Definitely...immersion is the best way to go. However, in the developing world, immersion is often not possible nor reflective of the reality many students face.
By the way Decon, you haven't answered the math quiz on another thread...think math is precise? |
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Magoo
Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 651
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| I reckon the tones are best ignored when you're just starting to learn Chinese. |
NOOOOOOOOO!!! Start to learn the tones from the very beginning. It really does make it easier to remember words, as Chinese doesn't have the phonetic complexity to help you differentiate between certain sounds. For example, cao (pron. tsow, as in cow) can mean 'grass', 'manger', 'to operate' or 'to f@ck', depending on the tone.
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Most Chinese teachers insist you learn the tones first, which is boring, useless and frustrating.
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Boring; yes. Frustrating; at times. Useless; never. I had 3 weeks of 'tone practice', before I started studying 'real' Chinese. Now the Chinese tell me that I speak like a local (but without a mouth full of food). Tones are central to several Asian languages, which makes it all the more difficult for us English speakers, but all the more important to master them.
*Climbs off high horse* |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| Deconstructor wrote: |
| Immersion is the best way to learn a new language. Necessity is the mother of all invention and the same is true here. If you live among the French, you will learn French whether you like it or not unless you're living in a cave. |
Completely agree, Decon, but it isn't always so simple. Practically no one outside my country speaks my language, so I always have to use another. But since many people speak at least a little English, that usually ends up being the language, and not the local one.
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| In fact, language courses are probably the worst method of learning a new language. It is a filtered environment that has nothing to do with the real world... |
Yes, but you don't really learn a language in a classroom, you learn enthusiasm for it. After that, students have to teach themselves. That's the reality I see. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Magoo wrote: |
| Tones are central to several Asian languages, which makes it all the more difficult for us English speakers, but all the more important to master them. |
Tones are used in English too, Mag. Frequently.
For example, they tell you when a 'tag question' is meant as a real question, and when it isn't. |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| poro wrote: |
| Deconstructor wrote: |
| In fact, language courses are probably the worst method of learning a new language. It is a filtered environment that has nothing to do with the real world... |
Yes, but you don't really learn a language in a classroom, you learn enthusiasm for it. After that, students have to teach themselves. That's the reality I see. |
I think the right types language courses work fine for learning the basics of a foreign language, especially if one thinks of the instructor as more of a facilitator than a teacher. Once language learners get beyond a very basic level, however, language learning has to continue to develop more and more autonomously. That enthusiasm from their classroom experiences needs to carry them on to higher levels, immersing themselves as much as possible, finding and using informants, and practicing, practicing, practicing. IMHO. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| Ben Round de Bloc wrote: |
| I think the right types language courses work fine for learning the basics of a foreign language, especially if one thinks of the instructor as more of a facilitator than a teacher. |
Sure, that's the way I see it too. Even if you're teaching very advanced material, they still have to work on it.
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| practicing, practicing, practicing. IMHO. |
May I suggest practising, practising, practising? Advise/advice - practise/practice.
Otherwise I agree with you, and sorry for being a pedant. |
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Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| poro wrote: |
May I suggest practising, practising, practising? Advise/advice - practise/practice.
Otherwise I agree with you, and sorry for being a pedant. |
Except for advise/advice (which I don't believe I used in my post,) you may suggest it, and I will ignore your suggestion. As I see it, you're not being pedant but showing your ignorance of different varieties of acceptable standard English.
Last edited by Ben Round de Bloc on Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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High Plains Drifter
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 127
Location: Way Out There
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| poro wrote: |
| May I suggest practising, practising, practising? Advise/advice - practise/practice. |
295,583,601 people, and not one of them gives a damn how you spell things, measure things or say things in your little country. How annoying it must be. |
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Sekhmet
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 329
Location: Alexandria, Egypt
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so any advice for someone who literally does not have enough hours in their day, trying to learn a language that has a different writing structure, different sentence structures and such a complicated and convoluted vocabulary and grammar that it makes my head spin??
I can converse pretty happily in Arabic now - and the mainstay of my language learning is taxi drivers. That being said, it's very difficult to get new words from them, especially since they mostly speak no English beyond "Hello" and "Where you go?". So, how do I go about learning new vocabulary? A phrase book is no help (it's the wrong type of Arabic) and finding people who will willingly help me learn is restricted to my (practically) non-existant free time.
That being said, Arabic is a really nice language, and I would love to be fluent in it! |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| poro wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In fact, language courses are probably the worst method of learning a new language. It is a filtered environment that has nothing to do with the real world... |
Yes, but you don't really learn a language in a classroom, you learn enthusiasm for it. After that, students have to teach themselves. That's the reality I see. |
I totally agree. The only problem is that students never think of the class as a place where they're only given tools; they want the teacher to do the building for them. This is especially true of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese, some of whom spend years even decades in level one of an EFL class. They depend on the teacher too much and think of the class as the only place where they will begin and master the English language.
The rebuttal against my argument is that they can't do much in a non-Anglophone country; to which I respond: all they have to do is read in English, listen to a short wave radio, watch English movies, which is abundant everywhere, join a conversation club and they will advance.
Instead they come to class and demand grammar, which they never, ever master. They fail to recognize that what they are taught are only the general rules for which there are infinite exceptions totally unlearnable. Students often want to bulldoze their way through language trying to submit it to their rational mind and again failing to realize that language must be experienced (because it is culture) and not rationally learned. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Improving language ability without lessons |
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| Ben Round de Bloc wrote: |
| As I see it, you're not being pedant but showing your ignorance of different varieties of acceptable standard English. |
Well thanx for your advise  |
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