Job Discussion Forums

[Mugato]

Just wondering if anyone has showed any Michael Moore films in the (university) classroom and with what results. I've thought about this for a while and am still somewhat torn. On the one hand it might convince them that the US is in fact not the land of milk and honey. On the other hand I don't want them to blindly buy into Moore's judgements- though I personally think they are sound most of the time.

Just wondering if anyone has done it before?

yours truly,
Mooregato

[Sixerfan]

I haven't done it...but personally I'd advise against it. I have so many brainwashed students that watching "9/11" would make them LOATHE America. It's often hard for students to not blindly accept things; they've been fed propoganda all their lives. Remember that Moore is 40% fact, 60% entertainment. I think students would definitely get the wrong idea from it; but again, that's my opinion.

[KES]

What is your educational goal in the showing of the Movie(s)?

[Mugato]

goals: raise cultural awareness and stimulate debate about the pros and cons of societal liberties. i mostly teach oral english and thought it might provoke some interesting thoughts.

M

[The G-stringed Avenger]

Mugato,

as an aside, i'm enjoying your posts in the off-topic forum!

regarding your question, I showed a group of 3rd year uni english writing students "9/11" thinking it would show them a side of America - and many western countries - that they probably wouldn't have dreamed of. That there are political and economic elites together with poverty, that the war is affecting real, ordinary people and also, more importantly, that we have freedom to question, examine and criticise our governments' policies and actions. Thought it would fire up their imagination and curiosity.

So, movie finished, lights up and.....

"It was boring."
"We want something more relevant to our daily lives."
"Can we watch King Arthur?"

It just goes to show, anything thought-provoking is sometimes wasted on university students. In the end, I got about 2 minutes of any actual discussion on the topics raised in the movie.

[Mugato]

stringy-g:

thanks for your feedback about students' reaction to m.moore's films-i suspected as much. i still might try to watch 'fahrenheit' with one of my smaller classes (6 students) and see how it goes.

keep avenging

Mmmmmmmmhgato

[anthyp]

I don't really see the point of showing this film in the classroom.

Come on, be honest -- do you really care about enlightening or stimulating your students, or do you just want to force your own political agendas on them?

I mean, why "9/11?" Why not "Minority Report" or "The Day After Tomorrow?" With "9/11" you are not presenting a situation to your students and asking them to comment on it; you are hitting them over the head with a sledgehammer of ugly, ashamedly biased politics. If you were truly interested in engaging some sort of "debate," you would have to find a way to present the other side of this argument, the pro - Bush side, which a showing of this film certainly doesn't entail.

Don't force your politics on your students, that's terrible form. If you want to show them political - themed films there are a hundred better choices than Mr. Moore's diatribe ("Roy Collins," "Braveheart," hell even "JFK"). The only purpose in showing this film to others is to convince them of your own political views.

[Mugato]

anthype-

if i wanted to force my opinion on my students i would just show them the movie and not ask for anyone's advice. does that make sense to you?
but what i do care about is stimulating some discussion in the classroom.

as for the film-i do agree with you that 'fahrenheit 9-11' portrays politics from its nastiest and ugliest side. as for moore's bias-i remember him being unabashedly non-partisan and a constant critic of both repooblicans and dummocrats alike. I am actually rather disappointed that he supported 'ketchup boy' during the last campaign. as a film-maker he should have stayed clear from partisan endorsements!

by the way-i thought that 'the day after tomorrow' was by far the most uninspired blockbuster that's come out in a long time. but then i haven't watched 'catwoman' yet. any comments on that one? what about 'the passion of christ'?

M

[Songbird]

I showed 'The Day After Tomorrow' to one class, who totally freaked out etc etc. If I were still doing my Film studies classes I would probably show 'F 9-11' to try and open my stunned- mullet students (university) up a bit!

Catwoman? Please don't go there, so unimaginative....Berry fully deserved that Razzie!

'The Passion of the Christ'? Heck, even as a Christian (which I am) I wouldn't recommend this bloodthirsty gorefest to anyone! Watch a Freddy Kruger movie instead.

[Mugato]

if they liked 'day after tomorrow' they might like 'catwoman' too. 'cashing of the christ' is also not a good idea. bad examples of western culture!

Catgato

[The G-stringed Avenger]

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Using Movies in China can be Magical...
Yes, I've used 9/11...and many other movies
In the field of Filmic TESOLers,
there is a body of knowledge/practice.

For example, check out the "Promoting Change..." on page one of the China-Job section.
A few suggestions from the body of knowledge:

*Frame the viewing...in terms of time and task
If you just show the movie straight, it's easy for them to lapse into vegetative brain-waves. Rather, ask them questions about: what is seen/heard in the BRIEF movie sequence, which you Repeat via A>>B mode.

*Play an active Role...dynamic...funny...change your voice and position...create a heightened atmosphere...use freeze frame and Repeat for humor...for example, today I used a short scene from Gone with the Wind...where Brett earns scorn from the Confederate Gentlemen when he suggests that they may be over-optimistic in believing that the war will be over briefly...fast forward to the scene where Ashley rejects what's-her-name...and she slaps him in the face...we had lots of laughs w/the repeat mode, and me and another GUY (ladies were unwilling)doing the Role Play (w/scene-description-script via www.filmsite.org). We had 250 in the class. LOTS of fun.

About Moore. What makes it special for folks here..is that it's a behind-the-scenes view of faces they've seen often on TV here. Folks here are quite sensitive to face-reading and picking up subtle vibes about character. It's all part of the cultural heritage embodied in Feng Shui. Maybe that's something Chinese and US Blacks, for example, have in common...vast majority feel uncomfortable about Bush vibes/face...

Anyway...to include some Critical Thinking processes in the 9/11 showing, you can go scene-by-scene, using BELOW. 1st, show the scene w/out comment. Then have the students get in small groups to describe:
*what they see
*what they think is happening

They do this as the scene plays a few times on Repeat mode: Then explain to them what REALLY happened. (It definitely can promote Critical Thinking skills, but not necessarily support for invasion/War Crimes.)
Note that the chap is w/National Review, Wm. F. Buckley's conservative magazine...but Buckley ended up coming out against the invasion. All this is useful context to supply the students. Just beware of the students feeling any subtle pressure from you that they SHOULD agree w/Moore/you/etc...especially ifyou have the power-of-grade.
============================================

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great for scene-by-scene analysis/Critical Thinking
Compare w/the scene-by-scene at Michael Moore's Website

Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

(Dave Kopel is a contributing editor for National Review Online.) 2000
Election Night

Deceits 1-2

Fahrenheit 9/11 begins on election night 2000. We are first shown Al Gore rocking on stage with famous musicians and a high-spirited crowd. The conspicuous sign on stage reads "Florida Victory." Moore creates the impression that Gore was celebrating his victory in Florida. Moore's voiceover claims, "And little Stevie Wonder, he seemed so happy, like a miracle had taken place." The verb tense of past perfect ("had taken") furthers the impression that the election has been completed.



Actually, the rally took place in the early hours of election day, before polls had even opened. Gore did campaign in Florida on election day, but went home to Tennessee to await the results. The "Florida Victory" sign reflected Gore抯 hopes, not any actual election results. ("Gore Campaigns Into Election Day," Associated Press, Nov. 7, 2000.)

The film shows CBS and CNN calling Florida for Al Gore. According to the narrator, "Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy?.All of a sudden the other networks said, 'Hey, if Fox said it, it must be true.'"

We then see NBC anchor Tom Brokaw stating, "All of us networks made a mistake and projected Florida in the Al Gore column. It was our mistake."

Moore thus creates the false impression that the networks withdrew their claim about Gore winning Florida when they heard that Fox said that Bush won Florida.

In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening梑efore polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.
==============================================
Links:

Critiques of Moore or F9/11.Ethics ad Public Policy Center, War, Lies, and Videotape: A Viewer's Guide to Fahrenheit 9/11. MooreLies. Moorewatch. Neoperspectives. Fahrenheit Fact. Centigrade 9/11. Moore Exposed. Bowling for Truth. Fahrenheit 411. Watching Michael Moore. Democratic Leadership Council, "Michael Moore's Truth Problem." Democrats United Against Michael Moore. The Unofficial Michael Moore forums. Kelton Rhoads, Propaganda & Fahrenheit 9/11. Joey Tartakovsky.

Movies about Moore or Fahrenheit: Celsius 41.11.

Critiques of this critique, and/or defenses of Fahrenheit. Anthony Wade. Mr. Graff. Brian Ragle (PDF). Ed on Open Speech. Thread on the Randi Rhodes Show discussion forum. Daily Kos. Defending Fahrenheit 911. Fahrenheit Fact Check.

Media analysis: Professor Ifran Khawaja, Critical Reception: The Meaning of 'Fahrenheit 9-11'. Review of some major media reviews of Fahrenheit.

Collection of e-mails I received from Moore supporters: They're not all Moore-ons: Some folks who defend Fahrenheit 9/11 are thoughtful and constructive<<<

[jeffinflorida]

If it's any help to you I plan to show 4-5 BEASTIE BOYS music videos to 6 business classes next week.

The goals are that it may stimulate their little brains so that maybe I can get some conversation out of them. I will also discuss how MARKETING helped to sell the albums/cds that these little Jewish Boys from NYC made.

Any other suggestions on dvds to show in class?

[kev7161]

What I would do if I were showing 9/11, is to type up some Q&A worksheets to go along with the movie. Ask basic questions like "Is Moore for or against the war in Iraq?" "Why?"

Then, I would find some interesting turn of phrases he might use - - and I can't really remember any off the top of my head, but as an example: "What does Moore mean when he says that 'Bush couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag'?" (I know that's not in the movie, just an example, remember?)

Then some short answer questions like: "If you could vote, would you vote for George Bush? Why or why not?" Ask this question before the movie, then after, see how many change their minds.

Remember, talking about Chinese politics may be a big no-no in your school.

Anyway, let them jot down their answers, then you can discuss these questions with the class and they can use their notes for reference.

Also, you may want to find out how much they know about the war in Iraq, President Bush, and/or Michael Moore before the movie starts. Some of my high schoolers actually like Bush and like the fact we are fighting a war. For some reason, soldiers with guns really excite them (CS anyone?).

Just a few ideas for you to mull over.

[Road_runner]

Hi there,
Just joining in to voice my feelings on talking domestic politics with your students: I do feel it is rather risky to indulge in that area. Talking about N. American politics, however, is great to let your students know there is nothing wrong with having different political opinions than the ruler party.
For now, your students can just savour our freedom in having opinions.
That is one way for these students to learn about the N. American culture.

Keep up the good work, guys.