Job Discussion Forums

[sara.ede]

Well I realize this isn't about ESL but I figured picking the brains of a bunch of people living in Russia can't hurt.

My cousin is studying Russian on the University level in the US and is looking to spend the summer in Russia taking Russian language courses. Can anyone suggest reputable schools? Particularly ones that aren't prohibitively expensive? Geographic area isn't that important to her, reputation and cost are more so.

Sara
THANK YOU!

[zaneth]

If your cousin is self motivated it should be possible for her to come here and study on her own, especially if she already has a basic grounding in the language. I'm not and I didn't, so I've had trouble. But any decent sized Russian town will have at least a few English teachers that would probably be willing to help her. Though many teachers I've met refuse to give me formal lessons, pleading ignorance of how to teach Russian to foreigners, they would at least be available to help her out, get settled, tell her what things mean when she can't find it in the dictionary, that sort of thing.

I'm not at all suggesting that immersion is the be all and end all of language learning. But it seems to me that any school is going to see students from abroad as an income opportunity, and you'll end up paying a bit more than is necessary in this economy.

The volunteering idea sounds good. It shouldn't be difficult for her to come here, not spend much money, and get lots of Russian input and practice.

In fact, it's possible that my university would be willing to invite her and rent an apartment to her if they have one free during the summer. I'm sure some of the teachers and English students are around for the summer. I would think something similar would be possible at just about any small university.

Good luck

[sara.ede]

Thanks for the input. SHe hasn't ever left the US before and so I think she really wants the comfort of having a 'program' in place. Also, isn't it hard to just GO to Russia. I thought you had to be invited.

Sara

[bobs12]

Invitations aren't a huge problem- it's worth having a go at Zaneth's idea, getting in touch with one or two universities or colleges in smaller towns.

However, for the safety of a 'program'... she'll pay handsomely for the privilege. Zaneth's a nice guy, I've met him- why not send her off to him for the summer

Invitations again- you can buy them, or have someone issue them. Mine costs $175 for a 12-month business invitation.

One way would be to go on a low-profile English teaching placement with the likes of the *hack* *cough* Benedict School. Sorry, that just kind of stuck in my throat there... I originally came on their Russian teaching programme (sent by my university) and I was not terribly impressed. Teachers were more interested in practising English than teaching Russian...

Probably best to avoid Moscow if it's her first time away from home. St. P. is more manageable... hey, is she pretty? Send her to me, never mind Zaneth

On a more serious note though, maybe it would be better to find someone here (a teacher, maybe, or another student) who's willing to help her settle in. Finding a Russian family who would take in a foreign girl wouldn't be too difficult.

I can even ask my upstairs neighbours- they have a daughter living in England, and a younger daughter who goes there to visit. She's keen to learn English, etc. etc. I'm sure somebody at work might be interested as well.

There are lots of private teachers who advertise in the local press as giving lessons to foreigners. Maybe a good set up would be to just come and 'live', rather than confining herself to a classroom.

If I went back to studying, I'd do it that way; make a list of problems/questions as I went along, and meet a teacher two or three times a week to get them answered and explained. Best way to learn over a short period I reckon, otherwise you're limited to learning at the rate the teacher dictates. God, I wish my students would do that.

In theory, if she didn't mind sharing a room with another girl (my gorgeous Slovenian flatmate) she could probably even stay here for a month or two.

There you go- lots of disjointed ideas for you

[sara.ede]

Not quite ready to pimp out my cousin, but its good to know the option is there...

Ask around for me if you would. I'll call her tonight and see what she thinks of these ideas. She's a more nervous about travel than I am so though I think these ideas sound fabulous I have the feeling she would rather spend the money (ahh student loans) than have a strong sense of uncertainty. We shall see...every once in a while she says she isn't going to go abroad. I can't think of anything more retarded than someone studying Russian NOT going to Russia. Okay, I can think of things that are more retarded, but its up there.

[bobs12]

Hee hee, why not? There's plenty of money to be made over here

A homestay would be ideal, the only thing is that you pay $$$'s when you do that through an organisation.

The State Uni has language courses for foreigners, if she wants the pre-programmed element. The only thing is that with safety comes lack of necessity, if you know what I mean. Staying in student halls, you spend more time talking English/Pidgin English with the international students that you're bunged in with.

I'll ask a few people and see whether I can get some concrete offers.

[Communist Smurf]

If, as you say, she is willing to pay the big bucks, here is the most reputable organization I am aware of.

www.americancouncils.org/

But my best advice would be for her to visit local *American* universities and ask about their summer programs abroad. These are usually very structured and while abroad she would be studying and living with American students. This, of course, is not the ideal environment for learning the language, but it sounds like it might be best for her.

CS

[steven_gerrard]

I did my Uni year abroad in St Petes and studied Russian at the Benedict School and thought it was great. Admittedly that wasn't recently (1997) but IO have only good things to say about it. Must have changed a lot.

[bobs12]

Кому как, as they say. Grouping was bad, lessons poor, materials on the whole pretty awful. Some people were happy, but maybe they hadn't expected more. On the whole, impressions were pretty negative. RLUS came under major fire.

There were two good teachers. The grammar teacher, who was undoubtedly a linguistic genius, and the translation teacher, who was the only person to mark written assignments.

'Conversation classes' consisted of repetitive twoddle, mainly reading articles about poverty and homelessness (occasionally about the freak cold weather), and then strictly choreographed discussion.

All that said, my Russian professor gave me a bollocking for criticising them, told me that there is no such thing as a 'bad teacher', only bad students. She was quite right in some respects. But then she sympathised over the lack of 'productive' tasks and gave me permission to bugger off and get a job. The lack of marked written assignemnts is still my major gripe, and the one thing I would consider paying a teacher for, but everyone has his own preferences.

Funnily enough, after two weeks in Moscow with no choice but to speak Russian to my gf's parents, I arrived at BS speaking more fluently than most of those who'd already been in classes for that fortnight and aced the placement test. Nevertheless, I was assigned to the second group and kept there, to the bemusement of my classmates.

I'd say that staying with a Russian family is one of the best ways to really cross the gap between knowing of the language and being able to use it, as there's just no choice otherwise.

Most of the BS students hung around, or rather huddled around, in their uni groups and shunned any contact from locals, "they just want money, passport, English practice" etc. etc.

[steven_gerrard]

Seems like someone is still a bit bitter that they were placed in the second group....

I had a super time there. Life's too short to spend a full academic year living with a Russian family. Our obzh had a great atmosphere, I became friends with people I still make an effort to keep in contact with today (high praise indeed from me), all of whom were from Universities other than my own. I enjoyed the lessons and learnt a hell of a lot more studying 8 months there than I did in 3 years at uni. I agree with you that RLUS weren't much cop but we didn't really have much to do with them, day-to-day. I think they did well considering we only had three contact hours a day. I was in no position then to judge their teaching then and even now there's no one I dislike more than the student who thinks he knows better than the teacher.

I just hope our students are a little less harsh on us!

[bobs12]

I wasn't too bitter about where I was placed, as the top group was only a bit more satisfied than mine. The star of their show was the grammar teacher, but we didn't get much time with her.

There really never was any bitterness about placement, as I was quietly pleased about being a big fish in a small pond Even after I'd been given permission to leave, I would occasionally swan into class unexpected just to check that I wasn't being overtaken.

I was, and still am, bitter that written homework was never marked except by the translation teacher. Even he was pretty unconstructive with marking- would be fair to say he just wasn't very good at it.

There was a definite reluctance among teachers to give individual attention, e.g. answering questions in or out of class, especially if they weren't relevant to the day's lesson, which kinds of goes against my own 'ideals'. The translation teacher was an exception- he could be sidetracked for a whole lesson if we tried hard enough.

Nina, the secretary, and Liuba, who was in charge of the Avtovo obshaga, were actually a lot more helpful than many of the teachers and were very popular among the students.

I found that bored waitresses doing late shifts in a certain bar on Nevskii were more than pleased to have company, and I got some great 'lessons' there. I still have some notes written on napkins.

The best people to speak to are bored people who desperately want to chat, as they are the ones who really want you to express yourself, and will help you wherever you are lost for a word or an expression. Our uni professors told us that much before we left- they advised talking to elderly folk in parks, trains etc.

In short, I found that I learned a lot more without the aid of BS, but everyone's different. I suppose it depends what level you start at- if you're not at a conversant level, or you don't already have enough of a grasp of the basics, then yes, you most likely need to be taught in a school. But there comes a point when the only way forward is to go out and use the language.

What's the point of going to the country whose language you're studying, then sitting in classes that you could sit in back home? And who were the friends from other unis- Russians or other English speakers? Duff argument, mate.

As for 'disliking' students who think they know better than the teacher- why? There's no need to feel threatened by them, as you seem to. They're not going to take your job away.

Everyone's entitled to his opinion or his view on how things should be done. I generally voice this point and then explain that as long as I'm the teacher, things in my classes will be done my way, but that I'm willing to listen to any requests or ideas at the end of a lesson.

It's good to listen to your students sometimes. You do do that, don't you Steven? Or do you dismiss all feedback, suggestions, etc?

[zaneth]

Some people who are nervous about Russia go to Estonia to work on their Russian. A slight cop out but Estonia is nice enough. Also, St Pete's is a huge city but definitely feels more "Western". And I hear places in New York have a lot of Russian speakers, if she's really not too keen on travelling abroad.

In the end, if she really doesn't want to travel abroad she doesn't have to. My brother spent a semester abroad and really didn't care for it. It isn't for everyone. Maybe a little stupid to learn Russian and not go to Russia, at least from our perspective, but there's a lot to be said for staying at home.

A program doesn't necessarily give you a whole lot more stability and certainty. A visa, some money, a ticket home, some contacts. These provide security. And there are lots of good people here who believe in hospitality and like to talk. And I promise not to do anything bad to your cousin. Even if she asks me to.

I'll ask the vice rector tomorrow. Also, there's a university in a neighboring town that was trying to organize a summer program. I was thinking about it the other day and remembering that it was actually very reasonable priced. In a nice town and they get linguistics students to act as tour guides.

[Zorba]

Last year I spent three months at a private school called Yartek in Yaroslavl'. It is wonderfully well-run, with excellent teachers, some of whom speak fluent English. Yaroslavl' has a population of about 600,000 but its centre is small and easily negotiable. Accommodation is usually with a Russian 'babushka', some of these speak English but most don't.

I went there as part of an undergraduate programme organised through a British firm called RLUS, but it is possible to organise private arrangements with the school; there were several individual American and Dutch students studying there while I was there.

Unfortunately they don't really have a website. There is some information available from RLUS at

http://www.rlus.co.uk/Yaroslavl%20spring%202005.doc

Prices are available (perhaps out of date) at:

www.essruss.co.uk/htm/price_list.htm

And you can contact the school directly on + 7 (0) 852 321014, or try + 7 (0) 852 739759 - hopefully these contact details still work - if not get back to me. You might try e-mailing at [email protected] but am not sure how much they use e-mail. If these don't work or you want more contact details get back to me.

This is really worth looking into - it's possibly the best language school in Russia. The fact that Oxford University now chooses to have their undergraduates spend their second year there is testament to the school's hard work.

I have also spent time at Benedict School, St Petersburg. They are professional and pleasant enough but I found both the course and school dreary and dull.

[zaneth]

Yaroslavl might be an ideal choice, size-wise. I've heard good things about the city. I'm between Yaroslavl and Moscow, myself. About halfway.

[steven_gerrard]

There's no point in getting into all this about the Benedict School- I studied there years ago, enjoyed it, learn Russian well and went back and got a good degree- can't ask for any more than that.

As for student feedback- of course I value it, everyone does. Suggestions are one thing- telling the teacher what they are doing wrong abd how it should be done is quite another.