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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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 Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject: I'm a minority |
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This is courtesy of Guy on the GD forum.
Apparently non native speakers of English outnumber native speakers 3-1. What do you think the ratio is in Turkey?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7038031/site/newsweek/ |
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Faustino
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 601
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| Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| It's going to get even worse (or better). Soon we won't have a leg to stand on when teaching grammar. Can you imagine presenting a grammar point, only for one of your students to turn round and say 'that's wrong 'cause that's not how 500 million Chinese people say it.' |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Faustino wrote: |
| It's going to get even worse (or better). Soon we won't have a leg to stand on when teaching grammar. Can you imagine presenting a grammar point, only for one of your students to turn round and say 'that's wrong 'cause that's not how 500 million Chinese people say it. ' |
look at the development of English ....Many experts divide English Language into 3 parts.... Old English(7th century-1100), Middle English(1100-1450/1500), Modern English (1500-now).Some books divide Modern English into two 1.Early modern (1500-1700) ,2.Late Modern (1700-now)....i divide it into 4 ... there is Recent English period....hahaha ...if you want to learn this period go to http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7038031/site/newsweek/ |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Atlantic or Harper's, I can't remember which, did a fantastic article about global English about 4 years ago, and brought up some interesting questions about who owns English... I honestly don't believe it's us anymore, and to the extent that it's possible, I try to teach it this way. I mean, you have to teach them all the prescriptive stuff so they can pass their exams, but really, is it that bad if they say, 'I go to school for learn English?' For a majority of the students, English is a means to an end, and it's just one tool they need to achieve their goals. If their goals are to have perfect articles and prepositions, that's fine, but most of them need it simply to communicate with (by and large) non-native speakers who also aren't perfect speakers.
I hope EFL teaching (and testing!) starts to reflect English's place as a global language more. I mean, how can we claim we own it when there are more learners of English in China alone than there are native speakers (this according to the article I've referred to above-- numbers vary quite a lot depending on what you read)? |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope EFL teaching (and testing!) starts to reflect English's place as a global language more |
Just out of interest does your testing system reflect this. Are your tests(your institution's) more 'fill in the gap with the correct form of the verb' or are they more skills based? |
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Baba Alex
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| justme wrote: |
| I mean, you have to teach them all the prescriptive stuff so they can pass their exams, but really, is it that bad if they say, 'I go to school for learn English?' |
Yes it is, 'for' and 'to' might be the same in Turkish, but in many other languages it isn't, and they will simply think the speaker is a bad speaker. We all know that in communication, if the speaker makes basic errors in his/her language useage this can create a negative image for the listener. Anyone who speaks a language can own it, they can intruduce new vocabulary from their mother tounge if they wish, they can even coin new terms or phrases, but a Laissez faire attitude towards the technical issues which only end up with everyone speaking strange bastardised dialects of English, like Americans. |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| justme wrote: |
| is it that bad if they say, 'I go to school for learn English? |
forget infinitives...it is a long story in every language
Captain Kirk in Star Trek started each episode "To boldly go......" |
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Faustino
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 601
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't mess with Captain Kirk. English had obviously evolved by that time. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Captain Kirk in Star Trek started each episode "To boldly go......" |
Why is "to boldly go" always used as an example of a splint infinitive?
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/cyc/s/split.htm
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When Latin was a high-status language, grammarians used to try to force the rules of Latin onto English, a language with a rather different grammar. One such rule they invented was "do not split an infinitive" -- that is, do not put anything between the to and the rest of the verb. Their reasoning seems to be that, since it is impossible to split the single-word infinitive in Latin, one shouldn't split it in English, either. So, something like to boldly go is beyond the pale, according to these Latin grammarians.
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FGT
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 762
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Similarly : t | |
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