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BCopeland
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Damascus, Syria
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I don't equate memorization with meaningful usage of the Arabic language. I just wanted to give you an idea of the nature of studies in Al Azhar.
With respect to the spelling mistakes, I admit that this is simply a case of fat fingers on the keyboard. Not to mention, that we are not in the classroom! It's a forum for God's sake...take it easy people!
I don't understand why a question about the cost of living would create such an uproar! As mentioned in my previous posts ghost, if given the opportunity to sit and talk, I am sure you would change your tune with respect to my "exaggerated" Arabic.
Back to the original reason why I posted here and that is to get an idea of the cost of living and nothing more.
Now I see why your time in Istanbul has been so exhaustive ghost...and that is simply because you come off as a very negative and pessimistic person.
Good luck with all of your endeavors!
B. Copeland |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:35 am Post subject: |
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There are basically 2 positions here with regard to a family living on 1500 a month.
The first are the tefl expats who live in longtermer enclaves like Cihangir, who are not married and have no kids. They typically earn more than 1500 a month because they have been here a while and work on the side. They frequent the expat bars and have a comfortable life. They have NEVER lived like the locals and spend more than the minimun wage on drink and cigarettes. They of course are happy and love telling newbies how they can easily live on what the locals do. But they will never practice what they preach. If they did they wouldn`t have internet access at home would they and be able to pour forth?
The second are those with a wife and kids who know how expensive it is to provide housing, heating, medical care, food and a future for their kids. This type are living like middle class Turks which of course is what a teacher is after all. They are trying to help newcomers by trying to explain that it would be very difficult to provide a decent life for your wife and kids on 1500 a month.
Lastly the Turkish minimum wage and other statistics such as 90% of Turkish workers earn less than 300 dollars a month are very misleading for these reasons:
They are based on legal work but more than half of the economy is cash.
It is for the whole country whereas Ist is the most expensive place to live.
It is based on what employers say they pay but most employers keep 2 sets of books so and this happened where I worked-we signed evey month to say we were earning minimum wage so the owner paid less social security but picked up 3 times as much. Yet according to the statistics we earned the former.
Poor locals have 2 jobs and live in extended families.
I could go on and on but the fact is that most statistics don`t work here. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| I could go on and on |
Please do 31. This is your most eloquent post to date. And also very true. |
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BCopeland
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Damascus, Syria
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks 31, your post is appreciated...and that goes for everyone that has taken the time to give their input. This gives me a better idea about living in the country as a whole!
B. Copeland |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
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| I could go on and on |
Please do 31. This is your most eloquent post to date. And also very true. |
Sorry for the crack about Cihangir. |
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calsimsek
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 775
Location: Ist Turkey
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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I seem to be the only one who thinks you can do it on 1500. I fall into the 2 nd group that 31 refers to, and now that I think about what he said I do agree a bit. Yes my wage is alot more than 1500, my wife works, and I own my flat. It has been a while since I lived a small wage. So I guss all theses people can't be wrong. 
So B. Copeland, while I think it can be done ( but only if you don't pay rent) I have to side with the flow and say that it will be difficult.
Last edited by calsimsek on Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| They have NEVER lived like the locals |
I have to disagree with you on this point. I do fall into your former category. however my first 18 months in Turkey was spent in a vilage of 2000 people and I had to live like a local as there was no alternative |
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BCopeland
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Damascus, Syria
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:34 am Post subject: |
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In conclusion...it can't be done. I appreciate the responses!
B. Copeland |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
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| They have NEVER lived like the locals |
I have to disagree with you on this point. I do fall into your former category. however my first 18 months in Turkey was spent in a vilage of 2000 people and I had to live like a local as there was no alternative |
I respectfully disagree with you about living like a local. I too lived on a low salary my first year here and ''had to live like a local.'' But when I look back I didn`t really have the same problems and worries that poor locals do.
I was in my twenties, had no wife, kids or parents, siblings to help support. I could always have gone back to the UK if I had really wanted to and got some kind of job. If I had become ill I could have gone back and got help from the NHS. I was able to supplement my income with extra work even if it was poorly paid. I brought enough clothes and books etc. with me, I had no debts. My biggest worry was whether I could get off with a local girl and if I could get another advance. I tripled my salary when I left. Locals couldn`t have done that could they.
Accomodation was provided even if it was very basic and if the worst came to the worst I could have sponged a few quid off my parents.
So I think it is fundamentally impossible for a Western European/North American to live ''like a local'' in Turkey. |
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dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| I could always have gone back to the UK if I had really wanted to |
But you didn't. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| dmb wrote: |
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| I could always have gone back to the UK if I had really wanted to |
But you didn't. |
No I didn`t but I had a safety net. I being a native speaker was able to triple my salary and get work on the side. Poor locals are stuck on a low salary and have no chance of legally tripling their wages. They also have no safety net. In my first few years I was able to piss away my money because it was a case of easy come easy go. |
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Faustino
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 601
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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How often do the posters here eat meat, drink alcohol, or go out anywhere? If you stop doing most of these things, don't have cable TV, don't use a great deal of hot water or buy new clothes regularly, then yes, it can be done.
Oh yeah, start using the government hospitals if you want to go native. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Faustino wrote: |
How often do the posters here eat meat, drink alcohol, or go out anywhere? If you stop doing most of these things, don't have cable TV, don't use a great deal of hot water or buy new clothes regularly, then yes, it can be done.
Oh yeah, start using the government hospitals if you want to go native. |
Faustino you forgot this must do part of poor local culture:
In the winter you get the stove (soba) out and have it on in the front room. You all spend your free time crowded into this one room with the family washing draped around the soba and the teapot constantly boiling on the soba. The resulting smell of wet washing, cheap coal and the freezing cold of the rest of the flat makes for a cozy front room atmosphere. |
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Faustino
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 601
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Do the posters on this thread realise that about 69,000,000 of the approx. 70,000,000 people living in this country do so in such conditions?
Don't feel bad about it, people. Ernest Hemingway considered himself a man of the world, and of course is a much revered travel writer. Nevertheless, he had little if any contact with the natives, wherever he lived. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: response |
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| Now I see why your time in Istanbul has been so exhaustive ghost...and that is simply because you come off as a very negative and pessimistic person. |
Sorry - Copeland. But for your information, when you see people who claim to be "teachers" make a load of spelling mistakes and grammar errors, it does not a good impression make. The red flag goes up.
Teachers are models for their students, and teachers who make a lot of errors are not good models....
If you make a lot of spelling mistakes because of an uncontrollable deficiency such as dyslexia...then there is little that can be done, but if spelling mistakes occur because of laziness or inattention to detail, one can guess that the teacher is not prepared and will reproduce similar results in the classroom. |
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