Job Discussion Forums

[jacqui]

I've heard that if foreigners participate in any way with the Zapatista movement they can be deported... is there any truth to this? Once you acquire a work permit are you granted the right to participate in any form of dissent without the risk of deportation? Thanks for any information

[Guy Courchesne]

I don't think any country takes lightly the participation of foriegners in its domestic politics. Look at Genoa a few years ago.

But, in Mexico's case, yes foreigners were being deported for being active in the Zapatista movement. These were not people who had FM3 I imagine. The Mexican government, and a good number of Mexicans, react very strongly to uninvited foreigners who start 'meddle'. Less than a year ago, a British military caving team became trapped in a flooded cave in Puebla state I think it was. There was a diplomatic flap over the incident that demonstrates this sensitivity.

It's too general to say, but Mexico has been invaded a few times by the US and once by France. It seems to be part of national consciousness still and comes out in these ways.

It's easy just to look at it like this. If someone you didn't know came over to your house and started rearranging the furniture, telling you that you've got it all backwards, how would you feel?

[jacqui]

Yes Guy I definately understand. I know the Zapatista's are/were using an internet campaign to bring foreigners into Mexico to protest in solidarity. The reason I asked is that I am considering studying the Zapatista movement for my thesis. As a result I would more then likely be interviewing members and at least observing any kind of protests/demonstrations (although I am sympathetic to their cause as well). I suppose it would have been better to to word it this way, by being in contact with members of the Zapatista and observing forms of dissent would I run into any problems with the police/government? Once I have a working visa am I then given the rights of a Mexican citizen and if not what rights would I be given? Thanks in advance

[thelmadatter]

I gotta agree with Guy on this. While here you are a guest of the country. I dont blame Mexico or any country that deports foreigners who seek to involve themselves in internal affairs. Now if you believe so strongly in assisting the Zapatista movement, go ahead... but realize you take risks in doing so.

I just love people who look to meddle in others affairs and then whine when they are on the receiving end of negative consequences.

[Samantha]

You most definitely DO NOT have the right to participate in politics in Mexico with an FM3 or even an FM2 visa. You are still a foreigner, and there have been some real horror stories of foreigners being arrested, detained and deported. I suggest you have a look at the Constitution, Section III, Article 33 where it clearly states "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country".
http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html
This link leads to the English translation of the Constitution.

[Guy Courchesne]

Perhaps you could study from a discreet distance, or put yourself in contact with thrid parties in Cuernavaca, rather than find yourself in the stockade on a military base in Chiapas. While I personally support (ideologically)the Zapatistas, I can never be public about it locally given my foreigner status.

UNAM Mexico City is a hotbed of Zapatista sympathy, even though it has been very quiet on this front for the last 3 years.

There might be some online information on foreign involvement with the Zapatistas if you search for los monos blancos zapatistas. This is a group of Italians who act as bodyguards for Marcos, one of the leaders and most public figure of the movement. The Italians' presence in Mexico suggests some form of network to protect foreign involvement that might be of interest to you.

[jacqui]

[Guy Courchesne]

I tend to agree with you there Jacqui, though the situation is not one of genocide or outright warfare here. It is completely political at this point. There are agreements, though little conversation right now, and no one is actively fighting.

I think there is a parallel to Quebec separatism here, or native land claim cases, or at worst, the Oka crisis. International assistance isn't/wasn't asked for in these cases either. I think Canadians would have been pretty rankled had anyone asked for US intervention there. Mexicans feel the same.

[MixtecaMike]

[Samantha]

These links refer to an ugly incident in Guadalajara less than a year ago, and perhaps these accounts will help put things into perspective regarding political protests in Mexico.

http://www.ideals.nu/article.php?sid=183

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=13&ItemID=5726

http://www.active.org.au/sydney/news/front.php3?article_id=2989&group=webcast

[ls650]

If your conscience guides you to do this, then you should do it - but be prepared to face the consequences...

IMHO, if you truly want to help the local people, there are plenty of opportunities to do so without appearing to be 'interfering' in local politics

[Guy Courchesne]

Samantha,

Interesting links you provide. I remember the coverage of that protest. It's funny how a story can change depending on how you package it. I think I was watching TV Aztecas coverage of the event. That had made the protesters look bad and the police look good by showing only shots of cops holding their ground where 'violent mobs' attacked them.

Truth is always somewhere between the lies, says I. We saw the same thing in Seattle, Cancun, Quebec City, Genoa, Davos, and other places. I don't think Mexico should be singled out for this world battle.

[Samantha]

Exactamente! I watched it on the news as well and then read the report in the Guadalaja reporter online, and it was all quite different from these links. My point to newcomers to Mexico would be if you are coming to teach English, you should probably stick with teaching English (or volunteering in the Orphanages or.....) or you may end up unexpectedly heading home under unpleasant circumstances.

[thelmadatter]

jacqui

True, you were not whining in your original post. However, Ive seen the attitude (arrogant in my opinion) of some folks who go in to be the cowboy in the white hat and they when they get bit, act horrified. Yes there are times when people of conscience step in, and I respect that when they know and acknowledge the possible consequences. You may have a right to act according to your conscience but Mexico (as well as any other foreign country) has a right to sovereignty. Sometimes rights clash. I just get annoyed with folks who act as if they are the only good guys and everyone else ought to step aside and bow to their superiority.

I agree with Guy here in that the situation here is not a Rwanda, so the "rightness" of foreign intervention is quite questionable.

I also have problems with you going in under false pretenses. By going in saying you want to teach and getting a FM3, when your real objective is otherwise ... makes you seen shady. Not to mention the effect such a thing could have on future EFL teachers who follow where you have tread.

[jacqui]

Yes I totally understand that the Zapatista's are not involved in warfare. I just used Rwanda as an example of what happens when people choose to use that viewpoint. As for an "internet revolutionary" that was not my intention. I think I stated pretty clearly that I was planning on studying the Zapatista movement. It is very said that when someone posts a question on this forum some people feel the need to insult others either directly or indirectly. For those of you that answered my question respectfully (regardless if you agree with my political view) thanks.