Job Discussion Forums

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

You haven't been working there very long have you? Still buying the company line...

I am familiar with your websites. In fact, I work for a competitor of yours...not hiding anything here.

You might wager on recognition round the globe. Fine by me. I object to the words you use such as "internationally recognized" and "externally moderated".

Again, I have no problem with TEFL international. I have hired a total of two of their graduates and they were both very capable teachers. Cheers to Bruce et al.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

CostaRica TEFL,
I think if you are here defending your course, whether you are the owner or manager, I feel you should in the very least let us know what your job is with TEFL Int'l.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:17 am Post subject:

OK, you don't have anything against TEFL International, Guy, but whose qualifications do you trust more, and why?

I did the RSA/Cambridge CTEFLA (now CELTA) in 1996, and recently looked up my old training centre/school to see if they were still offering it; I was surprised to see that they've changed over entirely to the Trinity LTCL DipTESOL (a complete change of accrediting institution and level), even though the head trainer is the same.

Now, for a newbie, right away, there is a choice of Cambridge "versus" Trinity, but the fact that a training centre can "change brands" like that (maybe the alternative "franchise" allows them to retain a larger share of the money?) demonstrates how superficial the supposed differences are in the ELT industry. A school (usually a member of English UK - an amalgamation of ARELS or BASELT, two groups of self-important, self-regulating and reciprocally-validating schools, with ties to the British Council) wishes to become a training centre and basically pays Cambridge or Trinity to print certificiates for them (this adds a bit of class and presumably fended off the "quality" control brigade at some point in the distant past), and you're kidding yourself if you think there is much more than a lot of box-checking and handshaking going on here (at least, that's how I'm imagining it all works).

Basically, teacher-training is a way of generating extra income by using the foreign learners the school already has as cannon-fodder for trainee teachers whilst drawing on the experienced teachers-turned-trainers from the school to all help make a tidy sum from said trainees.

I don't see why any alternative training institutes (some of whom might actually have a less stale approach, some pioneering spirit left in them) should automatically be poo-pooed - I for one am not particularly impressed with what Cambridge has to offer (certainly not at CELTA level, and not even at DELTA level), and I think it is good for the industry that the navel-gazing and actually quite complacent monopolies are challenged by younger upstarts or "breakaway factions" to at least consider if not improve their game (depends on how good the challengers are I suppose - let's assume, for the sake of argument, that some of them are actually pretty good, at least as "good" as Cambridge or Trinity-validated training centres).

kcat · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 35

kcat · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 35

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Fluffyhamster (where did you come up with that name? Laughing

),
I agree that a good TEFL does not have to be a "name brand" like CELTA or Trinity. However, not all teacher training centres use their trainees to make money. When I did my CELTA they had volunteer students as our guinea pigs and this certainly created more work for the centre as they had to sift through the students for the appropriate levels.

kcat · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 35

kcat · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 35

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I think that too much emphasis is placed upon acronyms and brand names. I teach a TEFL program and I also assist teachers in seeking employment in Latin America. The overwhelming majority of employers care not for TEFL or CELTA but care for a teacher in their employ who can do the job, meaning, one who has experience, character, and commitment.

My job gives me two very interesting points of view. I know what it is that both students and employers want and need. I also understand the wants and needs of those who seek to travel abroad...teaching as a means to live and learn. Good thing that most language schools know that.

If one wants to teach as a career, you go and you get your degree in the field. TEFL and CELTA are a step in that career, and we are fortunate to have a structure in place around the world to support that step. For some, TEFL/CELTA is something you do for a year or two and never again. For others, it is a step to something further in education. There is no need to make it more than it is...cripes, the vast majority of you here on Dave's know that.

This is why I object to the overglorification of TEFL and CELTA...internationally recognized this and externally moderated that. If you really want to invesitgate it and be part of it, then get your own priorities straight, then ask about what it is that is most important to you. The experience? The job? The discovery?

Rant.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

kcat, you do need a BA to get a work visa for Korea.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:42 am Post subject:

Hiya kcat, I wasn't referring to you when I said 'newbie', but, well, to newbies in general! In fact, I didn't re-read right back to the start of the thread and kind of forgot what you actual situation/needs were - hope I don't upset anyone with what I wrote! Anyway, I just wanted to say that in the UK, prior to the RSA Prep. Certificate there really wasn't much idea of how to teach English on a mass scale (that is, to provide the teachers needed), and whilst we have to thank those pioneering trainers for all they did in paving the way, they didn't get everything right and still don't have all the answers; even the HE institutes offering MAs in Applied Linguistics or TESOL don't always strike one as offering that much.

kcat · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 35

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:00 am Post subject:

Guy, you can't have it both ways - you say you don't trust this TEFL International, and now you're saying you don't like acronyms full stop? The kind of teacher you like really is one who comes recommended and/or with a teaching degree of some sort, eh!

A teacher without any acronym after their name is like a TV set with no tuneable stations - a fuzzy blurry image. At least if you can make out "CELTA" or something you can say to yourself 'Wow, this teacher will be nice and average!'. (TV sets for different regions will pick up 'TEFL International' a bit more easily than other stations).

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I didn't say that I don't trust TEFL International. In fact, I said...