Job Discussion Forums

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

If the OP is from Ontario, and wants to be able to teach ESL in Ontario (outside of the k-12 system), then she should go with one of the programmes listed by TESL Ontario.

The only problem with the TESL Ontario programmes outside of Canada is that the programmes aren't as well known as some of the others (CELTA does have huge brand recognition- but so does McDonalds) to some school owners/HR people (in some countries, non-accredited universities exist, so if a school director has never heard of a particular university in Ontario, they may not know whether it is a real university or a diploma mill), so if you want to teach overseas after doing one of the TESL Ontario programmes (and I did one of the ones listed at a university in Ontario) you should briefly describe the length of the programme, kind of courses and the length and kind of placements you did in your cover letter.

And always ask yourself- If a school is run by people who would rather have someone who spent a month getting training (with something like 6 hours of practicum time) than someone who spent an academic year (doing 6 hours of practicum time every two weeks for the entire year), then is that really the place you want to work?

[kcat]

[Burl Ives]

I did my CELTA because of brand name recognition -- I recognised the brand. While I was doing it I recognised that CELTA is a kind of industry that feeds on an industry -- we, the white people, native speakers and free, have more money, or at least more immediate access to sums of money, than the heathen, and a trainee can pay a poopload more than a student of the language, and over a much shorter period of time.

Suited me. At the end I had something functional -- basic methodolgy.

It's not like I was asking for anything else. That's what their brand offers.

See, they sell to me, not to my employers, because I'm in China, and my employers don't know CELTA from Ceftriaxone.

[kcat]

[dream_team]

There has always been and likely will be for a long time to come, much debate about the relative merits of CELTA vs TESOL vs other types of certification. Let's try to simplify it. I am a teacher trainer and a former centre director and have trained on Cambridge (CELTA), Trinity (TESOL) and a few other certification courses all over the world, including state certifications in the US, and I can tell you that in terms of content, there isn't a great difference between TESOL and CELTA. The differences come in more from different trainers. In terms of employability worldwide, CELTA is the best for pre-service certification by far. Various TESOL and TEFL courses may be as good or better, depending on the centre and the trainer, but the Cambridge certificate is still the benchmark. If you want to work in the US, you can supplement your CELTA with a state cert in most states, and in Canada, CELTA is widely accepted.

ckat, why don't you enrol in the CELTA running at ILS in Montreal? It is excellent ( I know the trainers ). The web site is www.ilsc.ca and you can contact Kathryn Delaney at [email protected]

Good luck!

[Ben Round de Bloc]

[dream_team]

When I say benchmark, I don't refer to quality. There are of course lots of quality problems inherent in such short intensive courses. I mean recognition and employability. The fact is that for someone going out in the market globally, CELTA is going to get them more interviews than anything else. State certification in the US is not useful for employment overseas.

Many US universities that certify EFL teachers accept the CELTA as the whole of the "practical." Mine, in California, was one of them. Again, by "supplement" I mean in the generic sense. Someone with a CELTA or TESOL is likely to have a much easier time with state certification than someone who has never taught live.

I don't really sell CELTA / TESOL. I can be quite critical of them in many ways. They are, however, good tools for people for whom a pre-service globally recognised certification is appropriate.

[Ajarn Miguk]

dream_team wrote:

"State certification in the US is not useful for employment overseas."

Are you saying that a US accredited international school would be more impressed by the CELTA/TEFL/TESOL than they would by state certification?

Throw away my state license based on having graduated from a university school of education program but hang onto my four or six week certificate with both hands at all times?

[dream_team]

For a US accredited international school, of course US state certification is going to be recognised and valued. This is not the case though in the private language school sector that provides the vast majority of employment for EFL teachers working internationally. A private or franchise language school in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, much of Asia, South America, or Africa wants to see CELTA / TESOL plus experience. Some personal anecdotal evidence of this: When I have travelled and taught, no school has ever shown any interest in my US state certification. When I was a Director of Education in Paris, France and in Auckland, New Zealand, US-certified teachers looking for work told me time and time again that no one recognised their qualifications.

Of course your degree is more important and surely the program was much more comprehensive than an intensive pre-service course can be, but the discussion is about employability in the international language school sector, so to answer your question, yes, hold onto your 4-week certificate!

By the way, very few of the thousands of people who have done a good CELTA or TESOL course would disparage them, including those who have done the course after having significant teaching experience.

[Ajarn Miguk]

[EFLtrainer]

Something else to consider: experience of the trainers. While the websites of TESOL/TEFL/CELTA providers may claim their staff members are all well-qualified, this is not always the case.

For example, there is one TEFL provider that employs trainers with no actual EFL classroom experience. Some have had zero training on top of that. This is a major provider, too.

Ask before you buy. Ask for their names and their resumes.

[rmarqua2921]

If you want to begin your evaluation of a certificate program check out the credentials of the INSTRUCTORS. Ask questions! I received my TEFL teaching certificate in Mexico. I did not ask the questions. One of the instructors had a doctorate, medical doctor! The other I am not even sure whether he had a bachelor's degree from a reputable university. He was fired from ITTO when they found that he represented he had a Master's Degree but they fouund he did not. Both instructors were Mexican and had a difficult time with pronunciation, frustration throughout the course. Since then ITTO has found some reputable instructors. In Mexico watch out for a program with Juan Molina Fett, or Juan Fett Molina. If I had to do it again I would request documentation of the credentials of the instructors above all. As far as I am concerned that is what gives a program a great deal of validity. In CD Guzman, Mexico, IECTC, the instructor has an undergraduate degree in eduation, 30 years of experience in teaching every level including EFL, a doctorate in administration and in law. ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS! KNOW ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE YOUR INSTRUCTORS!!!

[EFLtrainer]

TEFL International uses people with no more than a BA and their own TEFL certificate in some locations. These are people ranging from zero experience to some years. Costa Rica, Spain and France all currently have or recently have had trainers with little or no EFL classroom experience.

In the last year or so they've lost - read driven out due to poor treatment, financial problems, or poor pay with overworking - something like 9 trainers. Maybe more. There are only thirteen sites. And these were all lost from only about half the sites. Each site having typically two trainers, you can do the numbers and see there's a problem.