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Things for which there is no word?
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have no idea, but I would bet you could find a very good Inuit word for that as they have over 600 words for snow


No they don't. Geoffrey Pullum published "The Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax" in 1991, that showed how ridiculous that idea is. Here is the standard link pointing out that the Inuits have round about the same number of words for snow that we have in English. http://www.sfs.nphil.uni-tuebingen.de/linguist/issues/5/5-1239.html
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travelingirl68



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 214
Location: My Own State of Mind...

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why thank you Stephen! That is what I get for having read Newsweek magazine. Rolling Eyes I would choose 'nutaryuk' from the list provided.
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carnac



Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 310
Location: in my village in Oman ;-)

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travelingirl - "bloodle" is WONDERFUL! I love it!
By the way, look up "Sapir - Whorf Hypothesis" and continue with search for "snow". Sapir is blamed for the error about Inuit snow words, but it really wasn't his doing. See also Steven Pinker, "The Language Instinct".
What is the sound of a tissue being pulled from a box?
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travelingirl68



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 214
Location: My Own State of Mind...

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tissue out of a box: Fwip
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The Goblin Queen



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: wordycakes Reply with quote

Maybe this is why spoken/written language will one day be transcended, since there is already so much that we communicate and have the ability to communicate without sound/written word/etc.. And there is so much that we experience that cannot be expressed in most any of these mediums that we have been shown. And a lot of that is universal. Maybe that is something that also connects us all? Who knows.
Just a thought.

^_^

-Meghan
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travelingirl68



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 214
Location: My Own State of Mind...

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting point Goblin, but it makes me think of the variety of ways languages/cultures express the sounds of animals... Now that I want to post an example, I am drawing a blank - but I know there are some interesting variations on their sounds... Anyone want to post their current location's animal noises? (Please keep this thread out of the gutter! Wink )
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sapir is blamed for the error about Inuit snow words, but it really wasn't his doing.
Sapir shouldn't even be blamed for the Sapir-whorf hyptothesis since the name was promoted by Whorf to give it spurious authority; Sapir had nothing to do with it.

Whorf is the one to blame.

Other linguistic urban legends are the Hopi sense of time, and the idea that the Spanish see colors differently from us because they don't have words for brown and purple (which is true but as they have as many words for the different shades of brown and purple as we do it's not even necessary to put the hypothesis to the test).

"The Language Instinct" by Pinker is excellent. It's also incredibly cheap at around $11, though if you're abroad shipping will come to a lot.
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travelingirl68



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 214
Location: My Own State of Mind...

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every post I have seen from you Stephen Jones (I feel that I should call you 'Mr. Jones' for some reason) has been linguistically enlightening. May I ask your background - academic and professional - and your areas of specialty? I could probably cull the information by trying to find every one of your posts, but I am feeling lazy and direct tonight.
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The Goblin Queen



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Animal noises? Like how we have the word "ribbit" and in Japanese, as far as I know, it's "kero". Ya know, like in the name of that Sanrio character Kerokerokeroppi?
That's so awesome. Japanese sound effect noises rule.
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travelingirl68



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 214
Location: My Own State of Mind...

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, exactly Goblin, and still I can't remember all the sounds I learned in Russian and French for these things...
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd like to know is, do Inuit speakers refer to snow on their coat as 'dandruff' - as in, 'Oh no, look, my dandruff's getting worse!' (This of course assumes that they have dandruff in the first place).
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go_ABs



Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would've said the noise for clearing your nose is "hoick". Go on, try saying it: give it a good phlegmy 'h' sound.

Mr Jones and Travelingirl: Bill Bryson's book Mother Tongue claims the Eskimos have fifty words for snow - "but, curiously, no word for just plain snow. To them there is crunchy snow, soft snow, and old snow, but no word that just means snow".

Animal noises: my Chinese colleagues look at me and my gf weird when we were talking about this. Like "woof woof" for a dog is "wahwahwah" (maybe this is something to do with the size of a typical Chinese dog..!), a pig is "oink oink" to us, and something like "schwa schwa" to them. A horse goes "neigh" to me, and some kind of snorting noise that must be accompanied by a bucking motion to these Chinese. It made our Chinese lesson that day rather interesting. But I guess you had to be there...
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mr Jones and Travelingirl: Bill Bryson's book Mother Tongue claims the Eskimos have fifty words for snow - "but, curiously, no word for just plain snow. To them there is crunchy snow, soft snow, and old snow, but no word that just means snow".


Bryson's plain wrong. In fact "Mother Tongue" is full of linguistic howlers, whenever Bryson steps outside of his main subject which is English. He totally fails to understand the concept or use of gender for example. Considering how good the book is when he is talking about what he knows,i it's a pity.

Another friend of mine has heard the word 'fifty', but there is nowhere you can find a list of fifty inuit words for snow or anything resembling it. The link I gave
http://www.sfs.nphil.uni-tuebingen.de/linguist/issues/5/5-1239.html
does give fifTEEN lexemes from one language, so I suspect both he and my friend's informant had simply misheard somebody talking about the genuine list.

The question has become an urban legend, and has a life of its own. You might equally come across it in "Newsweek" or in a magazine on skiing you read in the dentist's waiting room (actually the skiing magazine might well be using more English terms for snow than the Eskimos have).[/b]
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travelingirl68



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 214
Location: My Own State of Mind...

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I liked cold weather better, I would offer to trek on up to Inuit land and ask them myself! Smile
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sheepgirl



Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Quebec Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:15 pm    Post subject: animal sounds Reply with quote

I learned in a class last week there is a name for the noise a male llama makes while mating - "orgling".
a word for which there is a name, where you wouldn't expect there to be one! Apparently llamas are very weird animals.
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