Job Discussion Forums

[Bedouin]

It is often argued that the promotion of English is attacking or eroding traditional values in the Islamic world.

There are certainly many on both sides - the West and the Muslim world - who would embrace the view that the English language is essentially in conflict with Islam. I'm not exclusively referring to the language per se but more broadly to the socio-political and socio-cultural implications of the role of English in the Muslim world.

I'd be very curious to hear and share views about this.

You might want to consider posting on the TESOL Islamia website if you're interested in this area.

Sohail

www.tesolislamia.org
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/194034 [Discussion Forum]

[Nomad Dan]

In Texas, God's Country, many years ago. in the infancy of the Republic of Texas...the subject being debated was should educators in Texas schools teach English or German...Someone of importance said during the debate, and I quote, "if the English language was good enough for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, it is good enough for the school children of Texas."
I chuckle at the mentality of this well-intentioned Texan, I think that maybe the politicians have evolved SOME here...but not really. They still think that Spanish is bad

The God of my understanding isn't about Arabic or Mandarin or English.
Any thinking Muslim would surely agree, respecting that the Koran was written in Arabic.

I am sure that many do see English as evil and against Islamic principles. Again, I would say it is about evolution.
Nomad Dan

[johnslat]

Dear Bedouin,
I guess it all depends on one's definition of " Islam ": if you mean the religion as it's mainly practiced here, with its many restrictions on women, its antipathy towrds democracy, its unity of government and religion, its forcing of adherents to worship, its banning of other religions. etc., then English might well be seen as a " threat ", seeing as it, through the media ( TV, radio, the Net, newspapers, etc. ) could introduce ideas hostile to such practices. But personally, I don't think all of those items mentioned above are essential, or even proper, parts of Islam. So, if one is a " fundamentalist " Moslem, then English is likely seen as threatening. But if one is a " liberal Moslem " then it's probably not.
Regards.
John

[Bedouin]

Dear John

Thank you for your comments.

I'm afraid I disagree; there are extremely liberal French people that are uneasy about the role of English in the world. Apparently, there are laws in France that prohibit the use of shop signs in English if a French alternative cannot be found.

These are extremely important issue for everyone.

Right now, Britain is debating whether to adopt the Euro and ditch the pound. According to latest polls, many Brits have a strong attachment to the pound that has little to do with rational economic arguments. One imagines how they would react if they were told to accommodate more French into mainstream British culture.

In short, I think your comments about democracy and the role of women are frankly a red herring.

Sohail

[johnslat]

Dear Bedouin,
By introducing the French into this, you're comparing apples and oranges. The French are protective ( some might say " over-protective ) of their " nationalist culture/langauge ". I thought you were asking about Islam. No red herrings here; the degree to which a Moslem feels " threatened " by English depends, I'd say, on how much they fear the spead of such ideas as women's lib, democracy, free press, free speech, in short, freedom.
Oh, they might say they fear " materialism ", too, but that's already rampant here. What it does remind me of is the " fear " the Christians had and still have of " science "; many felt and some still feel " threatened " by it. They're afraid it contradicts/will contradict their beliefs. Both " fears ", those of the Moslems and the Christians, are, I think, baseless.
Regards,
John

[Bedouin]

Dear John

I'm not so sure that there is a meaningful qualitative difference here.

I imagine all nations/societies are protective if they feel their culture or values are being undermined or threatened. I don't think the French are particularly unique in this respect.

Curiously, in the US there is a significant body of American public opinion that actually feels uneasy about Spanish gaining ground over English. The organisation "US English" for instance is well known for aggressively campaigning for an English-Only society for the US [Remember English is NOT the official lnaguage of the United States] One of main concerns of this organisation is reforming Bilingual Spanish education in the States. On its website (http://www.us-english.org/) it provides "scandalous" instances of say a US drivers licence translated into Spanish.

My point is that language is an intimate part of our culture and personal identity. People naturally feel uneasy if they feel their language is being undermined. Muslims are no different in this respect. It's nothing to do with fundamentalism or liberalism.

Kind regards

Sohail

[johnslat]

Dear Bedouin,
What exactly is this " fear " - that English is going to " replace " Arabic? If so, that's about as likely as peace breaking out in the Middle East, if not less so. If it's about " values ", just what " values " ( besides the ones I mentioned, which are more hidebound traditionalism, unsuited to the world today, than " values " ) does English threaten? Here in Saudi Arabia, they're finally waking up to the fact that having close to 50% of your potential work force unemployed/unemployable ( i.e. women ) isn't going to be possible, given the world as it is today. So they're at least talking about " opening up new employment opportunities " for the ladies. And they also realize that, given the predominance of English these days, not knowing it presents a major obstacle to business - and the " bottom line " is, as always, money. So they're planning to start teaching it in the lower grades now. French people who think introducing " le hamburger " into the French language and British people who feel that switching from the pound to the euro is somehow going to hurt their " Frenchness " and " Britishness " are, I think, very insecure in both instances. The same goes for Americans worried about Spanish. The major languages are going to be around for a long time yet, no matter what happens. And living languages are always changing, importing new words from other tongues.
Could you tell me, specifically, how English can " threaten " Islam - and please, specifically.
Regards,
John

[Bedouin]

Dear John

With all due respect, "fear" is a notion that you have projected into this debate. We're talking about - at least I was - the question of English undermining people's values or sense of identity. You may wish to define that as an "insecurity" but evidently the importance of language obviously arouses strong emotions for many people around the world. I'm tempted to say it's the sort of attitude that is tantamount to saying that all black people have a chip on their shoulder. I personally see no difference between the crude insensitivity of many native speakers of English to other people's language sensitivities and other sorts of prejudice.

Is Arabic being replaced by English? Of course, it is! Certainly in the some realms: notably, higher education in the Arabian Gulf States. One could argue that English is important but opting for it as a medium of instruction is quite another matter.

France, Italy, Gemany, Spain, Japan and countless others have not opted for English as a medium of instruction in higher education and yet they are successful economic nations if you must judge countries by these parameters. The claims of English being a panacea for economic depression are frankly over inflated. I often ask myself why 200 years of English language education in India has not brought them any significant economic benefits.

How does English threaten Islam? Well by simply investing greater resources into English this invariably impacts on Arabic and Islamic studies. I certainly have noted over the years how Arabic and Islamic studies have become increasingly marginalised as a result of the prominence of English in the curricula. In a recent Washington post article an American correspondent in Qatar was gloating about how English had somehow displaced Islam from the curriculum and that this was necessarily a good thing for the region [see http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=194034&messageid=1047664207] This is just one aspect of conflict between Islam and English. I could go on at length. There are countless of others that have been well documented. Perhaps since you seem interested in this area you might want to read one of the many varied articles located at http://www.tesolislamia.org/articles.htm.

It particular I recommend reading the work of Alistair Pennycook and James Tollefson, two leading applied linguists.

Kind regards

Sohail

[johnslat]

Dear Bedouin.
" It is often argued that the promotion of English is attacking or eroding traditional values in the Islamic world. "
" With all due respect, "fear" is a notion that you have projected into this debate. "
" We're talking about - at least I was - the question of English undermining people's values or sense of identity. "
So, what you're saying, then, is - when someone's values and/or sense of identity is being attacked and undermined, he/she should not feel threatened by this, should not feel any fear. Well, that would seem to me to be a very odd lack of reaction. Of course, this all begs the question: are those nebulous values ( which I still can't get you to specifically define - that would help, you know, to bring the discussion out of the clouds and down to particulars ) are, in fact, being attacked, eroded and/or undermined. I'm sure you're familiar with the history of languages, how one or another becomes a so-called " lingua franca " for a while, due to the the native speakers of that language acquiring political and economic " clout ", usually by force of arms. Persian, Greek, Latin, Arabic, Spanish and French all had their " days in the sun ", as English is having now. English's day will pass as well, to be replaced by who knows - perhaps Chinese. You did mention one specific " impact ", the diversion of resources into the study of English at the expense of Arabic/Islamic studies. Perhaps that is a by-product of the fact that English is the main contender, these days, for the title of " world language ". But why are these resources being " diverted ", why are more people seemingly intrested nowadays in studying English? The primary reason is likely economic - there's nothing that attractive about English in itself to make it so popular. Then there's it's dominance in the media. Is it right that one language should be so dominant ( or one country, for that matter )? Well, in a