Job Discussion Forums

[matttheboy]

How many of you guys are out there teaching 'illegally', as in not having a work visa, not paying taxes, doing a border run every 3 or so months?

Does being in this situation make life difficult for you? Are you looked down upon like we (not specifically you or me) tend to do in our own countries? Seen as freeloaders? Alienated by 'society'?

Also, how do you guys who are working legally, having jumped through all the hoops and gone through all the bureacracy of sorting out your visas/residency etc, feel about 'illegals' in 'your country'?

Personally, i came to Argentina illegally, leave the country whenever i need to and nobody ever says a word at immigration. I've never had a problem with anyone, the Argentines have never treated me with anything other than respect and when i've mentioned (to Argentines) that i was working illegally the usual response has been "Me too! You're in Argentina, everyone does that!"

I'm actually now going through the process of getting residency through an amnesty for illegal immigrants like myself so will soon be all legal, happy and able to start my own business. I'll also be able to turn my nose up at all the backpacker teachers passing through Buenos Aires!!!

Any thoughts?

Oh, please try to keep on topic

[denise]

I would feel uncomfortable working illegally because it seems like your boss could withhold pay or do other nasty things and you wouldn't be able to report it or do anything about it.

I've been lucky so far in that I have landed jobs where my employers have either gotten my visa for me or held my hand and walked me through the process of doing it myself.

I don't look down on teachers who work under the table, do the border run every three months, etc., just like I don't look down on illegal immigrants in the States. I do feel more pity for illegal immigrants in the States, though, because odds are they've got much rougher lives than the backpacking teacher-travelers who are constantly moving between countries and living it up.

d

[Girl Scout]

I live on an island. Making a visa run from Taiwan is a costly endeavor. While I don't look down upon the people who work illeagally, I don't think they are the smartest or most serious teachers around. I see the waste of time and money as a big mistake.

In countries where making a visa run is cheap and easy, I really don't care. It is their decision.

[Roger]

It would be helpful to know where the OP stands on the question he asks this forum: how do you personally feel about IIs?

I have some pertinent thoughts about this, but I wish to know first of all what he thinks of people in his own situation, a situation he chose in the full knowl3edge of facts, or so one would assume.

[matttheboy]

Roger,

I have no problem with teachers who choose to work illegally. The fact is that, here in South America, lining up a contract and visa is very very difficult to do before you arrive. It happens but is definitely the exception rather than the rule.

As such, the vast majority of teachers is here (in Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia-countries i've either worked in or visited and met TEFLers) illegally. I was in that position, i arrived in Ecuador without a visa and simply worked on a tourist visa. The Ecuadorian authorities weren't that fussed. My school paid my taxes on my earnings, ie i was paid net.

Here in Argentina, schools simply don't offer contracts. Most TEFLers are working illegally. The authorities don't care too much; you can even get a tax number to pay taxes on your income without having a work visa although most schools don't ask for that, they pay cash in hand. If you can persuade the school you really are serious about staying then you may get a contract and they may help you with a visa but it's not that common. There are so many highly educated local English teachers (Argentines fluent in English with a 4 year degree in teaching) who don't need visas etc that sorting one out for a foreigner is too much hassle for many schools.

I think you can be a 'serious' teacher even without having a contract or work visa. Some people like the freedom that this allows them, i know i do. I don't like being tied down to a contract...but...I do have a problem with teachers who work without contracts and simply up and leave after a couple of months. They make it very difficult for the serious teachers to get jobs and contracts as the schools get scared off.

I came to South America fully aware of these facts. It certainly doesn't bother me. I was used to it anyway, i worked in Australia without a contract (but with a visa) and also in England.

[Justin Trullinger]

Have been illegal all over Europe, mostly Spain and Italy. In terms of what to do if your boss takes advantage, well, the last boss knew he was likely to get his legs broken. In the absence of legal recourse, sometimes illegal recourse is the way to go.

I lined up my job in Ecuador before I arrived, and am completely legal now, which I find much more relaxing. But in Ecuador at least, this is really only an option for the long term "stayers." If you're staying less than a year, there's hardly any point in getting the papers in order. Or any way to do it, for that matter.

Justin

[ls650]

I think it tends on the local situation. In some places the immigration folks are very strict and penalties can be harsh, but in some places, the authorities willingly turn a blind eye. Do some research before you work somewhere illegally.

That said, I've never had to work illegally, but I've been pretty lucky with the jobs I've found.

[zaneth]

Strange question: "How many of you are breaking the law on a habitual basis?"

I'd have a hard time comparing illegal teachers to illegal immigrants in America. The illegals in America are harder working for one thing....

Some pretty crappy things happy to Mexican workers. Just before paycheck is due, the boss makes an anonymous call to Immigration (or is it homeland security now?) and everybody gets deported. Great way to save on wages.

Are there any countries that actively prosecute illegal teachers? Seems like they serve a useful purpose in development, so are tolerated.

A lot of my Russian friends scoff at my desire to be legal. But it's something of a cultural thing, I think. Americans are somewhat more law abiding than you might guess from watching our cop shows.

Being legal is definitely more relaxing, even in a country where the authorities turn a blind eye.

[matttheboy]

[Miss TESOL]

It's not easy being illegal although there are benefits to doing extra tutoring! I found out I was doing illegal work in Korea several years back.

I had a legal job, and aheard of a daytime tutoring opportunity with a pair of doctors wanting to improve their conversational skills.

They offered me a fabulous rate per hour which I just couldn't refuse! But guess who they called for a reference? My then current supervisor (!) at the other job once they found out the name of the language institute where I was working.

The doctors must have had a lot of influence since nothing ever happened, but I've heard of others getting in trouble for such moonlighting, or would that be daylighting since I tutored first before going to my afternoon/evening legit job.

[struelle]

This is a tough one.

Personally I choose the legal route wherever and whenever it's possible, but the whole concept of illegal workers brings up assumptions about the nature of the state, globalization, and an unhealthy global wealth disparity. Who sets and enforces the labor laws? The authorities of the respective countries in question. A legal work practice in one country may be illegal in another one, and vice versa.

If, all of a sudden, national borders disappeared tomorrow, what might happen? You'd get a mammoth influx of labor to the richer countries and/or urban areas that would cripple those markets in no time. Borders are like dams: they keep out an unwanted deluge of illegal immigrants and use the mechanisms of legislation to regulate an existing flow of workers. Yet the borders must continuously be tightened and maintained against the ever-increasing buildup.

Obviously, borders are not going to disappear. But you can see how the dam analogy plays out by looking at regions in the world where comparatively rich and poor countries exist next to each other. Mexico and USA come to mind, same with Indonesia and Malaysia, as well as Spain and Morocco. The desired flow of people is pretty obvious: poor --> rich countries. In a situation like this, illegal immigration is bound to happen as the 'dam of legislation' can only hold back so much.

But curiously, we can see a reverse flow, call it a trickle, of 'backpacker types' who go out of their countries to less developed ones. Many work illegally as well, but it's harder to understand why. Two guesses:

(a) Authorities may be strict in granting work visas if they feel that foreign workers are taking away from jobs a local could do. In a case where a country is developing to even out the wealth gap of its neighbors, this makes a lot of sense.

(b) Authorities may not really care one way or the other about illegal immigration if there aren't many people doing it and the work benefits the locals in some way.

Just my 2 cents.
Steve

[Teacher in Rome]

[Roger]

As they say, it takes two to tango.

I would distinguish between IIs and those who want to be legal but are ignored by prospective employers.

We have an indecent number of IIs in some Asian countries, especially in Taiwan, and many also in China. They don't even care to be legal. I often hear the most haughty crap such as "why should I sign a one-year contract with a third-world school? Demand and supply... so long as they don't pay me my dues I work here as long as it suits me, and for whoever that pays me alright..."

Should I respect such people? No! They are no better than the many fly-by-night school operators. Despise them? Don't know - but definitely not respect them, and certainly I won't pity them when things sour.

Then there are many that get victimised by unscrupulous hirers. This is more common than one would think possible in a country that recewntly emerged from its commando economy. I sympathise with colleagues who failed to find honest employers.

Backpacking one's way around the world by "teaching" is not a viable lifestyle in the long term; teaching needs people of a more stable predisposition and mind. I also question the image those mercenary teachers create in the minds of natives in those countries where they put in a stint of several weeks/months: is it fair to them? Why should South Americans make efforts at learning English in the first place since using this lingo is apparently of purely marketing and economic value? How can so-called first-world countries keep illegals out? On what moral grounds?
I think IIs from the so-called "developed" world are more reprehensible than illegal immigrants from Africa or Latin America in Europe or the U.S.A.

[anthyp]

Well, I do not have much sympathy for either sort of illegal immigrant.

First of all, I am in favor of reasonable (call them "liberal" if you must) immigration policies, so it's not like I am saying Keep everyone out. But I think we get too many questions from people here looking to use TEFL merely as a means of funding idle travel, and who do not show enough respect to the profession of teaching.

I suppose the blame is shared by the immigration control of these various countries, like China and Spain, that, if not in open encouragement of illegal workers, at least do not go out of their way to dissuade them. If these countries were to tighten up their immigration controls, I for one would not lament the loss of all these damn backpackers and kids roaming the vast TEFL expanse.

Would I be wrong to postulate that, of the serious professionals here, in this forum, the overwhelming majority of them are legal (or in the process of being so)? Whom exactly would be hurt by tougher immigration controls? Backpackers? It's not like we are forced by circumstance into this lifestyle ...

Which brings me to the second kind of illegal alien, the kind that goes from poor country to rich; yes I find it easier to justify, but no, I am not convinced that many of these people are so absolutely in need of emigrating that they should simply be allowed to skirt immigration laws.

[cujobytes]

Get off your high horse Anthyp.