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Akula the shark
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 103
Location: NZ
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 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: Awareness re Racism |
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I'm sure all of you will have opinions vis a vis racism in Japan, but how aware do you think the average Japanese is concerning racism in their own country?
Personally I think it's still not something that they have been forced to think about much and consider. |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Consider the amount of stares and giggles you get when walking up and down a busy road packed with J's due to the fact that you are a foreigner...
...now consider how racist that would be if you saw a bunch of Canadians doing the same thing to a Japanese guy they saw in Canada...
They do it here non stop...
...but if we saw a Canadian in Canada do that we'd label them racist right off the bat.
...they dont even know what the word means here. |
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SamhainP8
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I see the same sort of thing happen all the time in Surfers Paradise, Australia where I live and where there is a sizeable Japanese community. I see groups of high school kids who have learned a few Japanese words shout out �konnichiwa� to passing Japanese and then piss themselves laughing. I remember reading a post that was talking about how the same thing happens to gaijins in Japan, in which Jap kids shout out �hello� and then piss themselves laughing. Racism is everywhere! Maybe it seems more severe to gaijins in Japan because they are the ones getting giggled at and not doing the giggling? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| SamhainP8 wrote: |
| I see the same sort of thing happen all the time in Surfers Paradise, Australia where I live and where there is a sizeable Japanese community. I see groups of high school kids who have learned a few Japanese words shout out �konnichiwa� to passing Japanese and then piss themselves laughing. I remember reading a post that was talking about how the same thing happens to gaijins in Japan, in which Jap kids shout out �hello� and then piss themselves laughing. Racism is everywhere! Maybe it seems more severe to gaijins in Japan because they are the ones getting giggled at and not doing the giggling? |
I think it depends on what kind of gaijin you are talking about. A Korean-Japanese or an African American will know what its like to be discriminated against in their own country but it will be a first for most white people visiting here. Anyway, I wouldnt call being shouted at "hello" being racist. Being racist is turned away from a bar with your friends or family or not have a landlord rent an apartment to you, or not get a job because of your color. White people learn what its like to be on the receiving end of discrimination and prejudice for a change.
High school kids anywhere are immature, its only when adults do that you have a problem. Do forty year old salarimen point and stare? Office ladies? Remember Australia is a country where you have something like 30-40 Aborigines suspiciously die at the hands of police in Australian jails every year. How many whites kill themselves or get lynched in Japanese jails?
I have lived here for nearly 18 years and have very rarely got maliciously laughed at for being a foreigner. Maybe in the backblocks of country Japan or perhaps in Tokyo where attitudes to foreigners are mixed, but where I am some kids say "hello" and I ignore it and dont make a big deal out of it.
PS. Go up to a japanese person in Broadbeach or Surfers, call him or her a "gaijin" in a Japanese restaurant and watch them choke on their sushi. |
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SamhainP8
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Your Spot on Paul! I had white folks in mind when I posted that. Actually I asked a male Japanese student in Shooters nightclub last month how he felt about being a �gaijin� and he DID choke on his biru!!!  It was like coming out of his nose and he had watery eyes etc. HAHAHA Funny shit! |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| White people learn what its like to be on the receiving end of discrimination and prejudice for a change. |
That would make some sense if those white people "on the receiving end" actually deserved any of "it" - if they were e.g. down-on-their-luck racist American employers or landlords who'd been "reduced" to teaching English in Japan. And just being giggled at by a bunch of Japanese schoolgirls (or even being turned down at a bar or for an apartment or job) would hardly be justice in the grand scheme of things for such people, now, would it? But I get the points you were making in the rest of your post.  |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Awareness re Racism |
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| Akula the shark wrote: |
I'm sure all of you will have opinions vis a vis racism in Japan, but how aware do you think the average Japanese is concerning racism in their own country?
Personally I think it's still not something that they have been forced to think about much and consider. |
I would go so far to suggest that a majority of Japanese are somewhat racist in their thinking, but many would not act on their beliefs. How many would welcome a zainich kankokujin "(Korean born in Japan) as a son or daughter in law, a "burakumin"? Ever seen the right wing sound trucks cruising around big cities in Japan calling for expulsion of foreigners?
The Tokyo Governor supported a bill to call out the army to put down "revolting foreigners" and called Chinese in japan a four-letter word. Ishihara is a racist right wing politician (he even wrote a book about standing up to America) and he has a 70% support rating by the voters in Tokyo.
Universities here practice institutional racism by prohibiting long term tenure for foreign academics. Foreign press are routinely barred from government press conferences. The Yasukuni issue, which deals with the Emperor right wingers and the role of Japanese war criminals, and the atitude towards China.
Im not saying your average japanese salariman is a chest-thumping racist ideologue, but racism is rampant on many levels in Japan, a country where 99% of the population call themselves Yamato. |
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SamhainP8
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Just to clear something up for people reading these posts who don�t know much about Australia. 30-40 Aborigines do NOT die suspiciously at the hands of police in Australian jails every year, I would be very surprised if it was 3-4 every year. But 1 is too many in any case and Paul makes a very valid point from this �slight� exaggeration. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SamhainP8 wrote: |
| Just to clear something up for people reading these posts who don�t know much about Australia. 30-40 Aborigines do NOT die suspiciously at the hands of police in Australian jails every year, I would be very surprised if it was 3-4 every year. But 1 is too many in any case and Paul makes a very valid point from this �slight� exaggeration. |
I would check your facts mate, I just did with a google search.
By DEBRA JOPSON
Indigenous deaths in prison have jumped to their highest recorded level in 20 years compared with deaths of other prisoners, preliminary figures gathered by the Australian Institute of Criminology reveal.
The total overall number of deaths in prison, using these preliminary figures, has fallen from 68 last year to 55 this year, while the number of Aboriginal deaths leapt from nine to 13.
That makes the proportion of prison deaths of Aboriginal people 28.9 per cent, said Ms Vicki Dalton, a research analyst with the institute.
An Aboriginal man from Walgett yesterday became the seventh indigenous person to die in NSW prisons this year when he was found hanging in an observation cell at Long Bay jail.
Prison officers found Eddie Russell, 25, dead at 6am in the cell, in which he had been placed on his own, the NSW Department of Corrective Services confirmed yesterday.
''The overall numbers would appear to be an improvement. However, the fact the proportion of Aboriginal deaths has increased is not good news,'' Ms Dalton said.
Meanwhile, counting police custody, the numbers of indigenous deaths in custody has jumped in the past 11 months to its highest level in four years.
Nineteen Aborigines have already died in police or prison custody so far this year - already two deaths more than in the full 12 months of last year, according to Ms Dalton.
It is the second highest number in Aboriginal deaths in prison custody ever recorded.
The death of Russell yesterday brought the number of indigenous deaths in custody during the 1990s to 145, a rise of 45 per cent on the '80s, when Australia started counting such deaths. This makes a toll of 255 over two decades since 1980, when the count began.
According to Ms Dalton, there were 110 indigenous deaths in custody in the '80s.
Of these deaths, 99 were investigated by the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, which made 339 recommendations meant to cut the toll this decade.
''Either they are the wrong recommendations, or they're not being properly implemented,'' said the manager of the Sydney-based Aboriginal Deaths in Custody Support Unit, Mr Ray Jackson.
In NSW, eight Aborigines have died in custody so far this year, three more than the full 12 months of last year. This year, seven died in prison and one in police custody, Ms Dalton said.
''And there's still a month to go,'' Mr Jackson said. He believes the figures are conservative because the institute's definition of death in custody is narrow, not counting deaths during home detention, for instance.
Last year, more than 17 per cent of all deaths in custody were of indigenous people, who comprise only 2 per cent of the general population.
This year, 13 Aborigines have died in prisons nationally, while six have died in police custody or police operations, according to Ms Dalton.
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Aboriginal jail deaths hit record
Jail deaths of Aboriginal prisoners in Australia have more than doubled since the royal commission of inquiry in 1991, according to a report issued June 26 by the Aboriginal affairs ministry. Last year the toll of prisoners found dead in jails reached 17, the highest ever recorded. Aborigines make up two percent of Australia's population of 18 million, but accounted for 25 percent of all deaths in police custody and jail in 1995. The royal commission issued a series of recommendations for better treatment of Aboriginal prisoners and lighter sentencing provisions, but these were cosmetic gestures to conceal its main purpose: whitewashing the police and prison guards who murdered Aboriginal prisoners. Every single death was classified as a suicide or from natural causes, and not one policeman or prison guard has been charged in any of the deaths. |
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SamhainP8
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Terrible facts! But nowhere amongst all that does it say that the deaths occurred �suspiciously at the hands of police�.
Don�t make assumptions from facts! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| SamhainP8 wrote: |
Terrible facts! But nowhere amongst all that does it say that the deaths occurred �suspiciously at the hands of police�.
Don�t make assumptions from facts! |
18 black prisoners do not suspiciously die for no reason when they are locked in a police jail or held in a federal prison run by white prison guards. How did they die? Trip down the stairs? Knock their head when they fell over?
If you are locked up for being an Aborigine or the wrong color you are in the hands of the police, no two ways about it. |
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SamhainP8
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Where did you get the 18 from?
One of lot of your information says that 17% of deaths in custody were indigenous and the other says 25%. This may be from different years I am guessing, but that means that 83% and 75% respectively of deaths in custody were non indigenous. Think about it a bit more there are many ways to die in prison. Drug overdose, piss off the wrong people, suicide etc. etc. Opinions read on the Internet are not facts. |
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SamhainP8
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry Akula,
It seems your discussion topic has become somewhat sidetracked  |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| SamhainP8 wrote: |
Where did you get the 18 from?
One of lot of your information says that 17% of deaths in custody were indigenous and the other says 25%. This may be from different years I am guessing, but that means that 83% and 75% respectively of deaths in custody were non indigenous. Think about it a bit more there are many ways to die in prison. Drug overdose, piss off the wrong people, suicide etc. etc. Opinions read on the Internet are not facts. |
The articles are just a selection picked off a google search on Aboriginal deaths in custody, from government and police reports on the matter. Its now 1 am and Im not going to pick out all the references for you when you can do a Google and see for yourself. There was about 10-20 articles on this topic of Aboriginal deaths. Suicide to my knowledge is not in the Aborigine culture.
Anyway, you can hairsplit as much as you want, but now its a case of not seeing the wood for the trees. The original argument was about racism in japan, and I was saying the Australian police are not exactly angels when it comes to dealing with non-white prisoners, and its well known in Australia that racism and police brutality against ethnic minorities exists in the police forces. That is not Internet gossip but a proven fact. |
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