Job Discussion Forums

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

Just a thought, JZer, but have you noticed how many countries this site is covering? I don't think Dave himself can honestly be expected to keep up on the employment laws of all of them. Nor should he, IMO. Forumosa has faced similar dilemmas and they deal with them thusly: It is not illegal for all foreigners to take jobs like this. Some have JFRVs or APRCs, other may come from countries with working holiday exchange arrangements. Foreigners with some classes of resident permits can take these jobs, for others it would be technically illegal. It's really up to the individual to know what work rights he has (and whether or not he is going to let the legality of something like this bother him).

Just my own opinion but, if we disallowed every employer that broke the letter of the law, we'd have to get rid of a lot of want ads. Schools that have Kindergarten hours would have to be banned from advertising, so would those who would ask their teachers to work out of multiple branches; then we'd have to disallow those who expect employees to work during the processing time for their ARCs(this is also technically illegal). If we included the last one (and we'd have to if we are looking to comply with the law 100%), we'd be left with virtually no want ads for Taiwan. I think its just better for Dave's to stay out of the quagmire that is Taiwan's bureaucracy and its constantly changing, infrequently enforced and nonsensical laws.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

I agree that ALV should make it clear that the jobs that they are offering are only legally available to certain individuals. I also agree that it would be helpful were Dave to request that ALV add this as an addendum to any future job postings. This would make the status of the position very clear to each potential applicant, and they could then make their own informed decision as to whether or not they should come. Having said that, I reiterate my earlier comments that I don't see that Dave has any obligation to do this.

The interesting thing is that after reading this very thread which discusses the matter that the majority would be working illegally at ALV (all considerations as to the repercussions aside), people are still willing to get on a plane and come here. As I have said all along, this is their right, but it does confuse me somewhat.

Foreigners in Taiwan are always complaining about the lack of enforcement of laws and rules, and suggest that Taiwan is a lawlessness society and in some way more primitive than back home. These people may be a minority, but they are often very vocal in their position on this matter.

My open question is: How can we as foreigners make any complaint about the �lawlessness� of Taiwan, when some of us choose to come and work here in the full knowledge that they will be doing so illegally. If we show a disregard of the laws here in Taiwan, then surely we are not in a position to be critical of the people enforcing these laws should they choose to show a disregard of us.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

TaoyuanSteve stated,

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

It is interesting. All the comments on Taiwan and no one has warned about the polution. Once you step outside of the Tapei airport you realize you are living in another world where the air is really bad. I just ask my Taiwanese friend who was living in the US if he has readjusted to the smog.

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

JZer, I did read your comments before posting. You seemed to be suggesting that you'd be angry at Dave if trouble befell you after taking a job originally advertised on this site. My point is you cannot expect an international site like this one, based in the US, to know everything about the employment laws of every jurisdiction from which it accepts want ads (nor should they). It is really up to the individual to research that themselves. Forumosa.com is a better resource for Taiwan specific info, BTW, as is the newly reborn buxiban.com.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

clark.w.griswald, I was not saying that you did not understand but TaoyuanSteve seemed not to understand that I was talking about if someone brought it to Dave's attention.

Clark, I hope we can continue to discuss Taiwan since I will eventually make my way there. I will be stuck in the U.S. until December to finish my M.A.

Clark do you think that I can land a job teaching English at a college if I have an M.A. in German Literature and Foreign Language Education. I have taken the same theories of language classes that people who earn their MA in ESL do. The thing that I am missing is the classes in which one further studies English grammar.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

boheme · Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 6

Newbie here -- I just received a 30-day job offer from ALV, along with a copy of their contract. In case anyone is unclear, the contract terms are strictly $1,950 (as "airfare reimbursement"), plus a little over $200 in telephone and pocket money.

I'm glad I tripped over this thread before going any further (since the recruiter is VERY anxious for my signature on the dotted line) -- even though I probably wouldn't have to worry about going unpaid (or being deported), I think I'd rather not deal with those issues with my first overseas gig. Well, at least I'd rather not start a job KNOWING that those were real possibilities. I understand that much of the overseas ESL market is a roll of the dice, though, so .......

Anyway -- thanks, all, for the valuable info and advice!

DirtGuy · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 529

Boheme,

I am corresponding with ALV right now and am interested in working over there. This would just be a glorified vacation for me so I 'm not concerned with the legality issues.

My question to you is about the various terms of the contract:

1. How long did they want you to teach?
2. What about food and lodging? Is this something you have to pick up on your own?
3. Do they supply all teaching materials and lesson plans or must you provide some/all of this?
4. What about airport pick up and transportation to the school?

Thanks a bunch.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

Dirtguy, I worked for ALV last summer and I will answer your question one by one:

Daphne · Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 119

I'd like to know why ALV seems to be the only Taiwan summer camp advertised on the net.

This seems incommensurate with the number of regular jobs advertised in Taiwan.

If you look at mainland China or SK the number of summer camps looking for teachers on this and other sites is in the dozens.

I wonder if summer camps are just not a very attractive proposition for Taiwanese, or perhaps most camps don't want to advertise in fear of being noticed and targeted by the local authorities for illegal hiring practices.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

No idea, where did you find South Korean summer camps? I was looking for them.

Maybe there is not a great demand for summer camps in Taiwan?

DirtGuy · Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 529

JZer,

Thanks for all the info. However, it looks sort of moot at this point. I sent my resume to "Sherry" and within hours got an e-mail back saying what a great addition I would be to their program. All she wanted was some recent pics. Sent 3 of them and never heard a thing. Contacted her again and said what's up? Her e-mail is having a problem she says. I re-send the pics one at a time so as to not overload anything. No reply.

Methinks it is age discrimination. I am 48 but could easily pass for my mid-thirties. No, that is not just my ego speaking. Have been told it too many times. Perhaps this is still too old for the "look" she wants. Oh well, her loss!

Has anyone else experienced this or heard about it?