Job Discussion Forums

[Iam]

Hi all,

I start a Celta in about 3 weeks time. I'm a native English speaker, 40 years old, no degree. Closest I ever came to learning grammar was touching on it in school many many years ago, mostly through learning (& subsequently forgetting, to a large degree) A level Spanish & French.

My preparation to date has focused entirely on teaching methods.

Those grammar books I've looked at tend to run alphabetically, & are far more detailed than I can imagine memorising. Do I really need to be able to quote the rules of postioning of adjectives, for instance? Grammar is something I simply know, pretty much, as a native English speaker, it's mroe the phrasing/explaining of the rules which is my difficulty.

My plan at the moment is to continue studying teaching methodology, plus memorise just the basics of grammar, e.g. What a preposition is, how the various tenses are named & formed.

The rest, I'm hoping, can be studied from grammar books prior to each lesson - on the job, as it were.

So, is this a recipe for disaster or a sound plan?

Are there any other points of grammar ... grammatical terms & rules I suppose I mean ... that I should commit to memory before starting the Celta?

Any advice welcome, thanks.

Iam.

[dyak]

For the CELTA you only need know the grammar of what you're going to teach, and know it well. For the rest, make sure you can at least name the parts of speech, tenses etc. It's a steep learning curve but it will fall into place once you start teaching regularly. I wouldn't slavishly follow teaching methodologies, though CELTA trainers will want to see this. Play to the strengths of your personality as this will ultimately be a reflection of the way you'll teach. Swot up on the test-teach-test methodology and the other one that I've forgotten and you'll be fine.

Good luck!

[fluffyhamster]

CELTA trainers will want to see some evidence of "language awareness" (that is, you'll obviously have to flesh out the methodology with some structures, words etc), but what they're mainly looking for are signs that you "understand" (accept) the methodology and are teaching in the way they have described, more or less prescribed, and therefore expect to see without fail. Given these circumstances and expectations, knowing a lot about the grammar (and showing that you know about the grammar) is not the primary concern, and as long as you don't introduce anything that is plain wrong or silly (not a problem when you're a native speaker!) you will surely pass.

Once you have your gleaming CELTA you then of course have at least two options: to relax and forget all about developing as a professional (which unfortunately many "teachers" seem to do), or to continue struggling with the grammar in order to make increasingly less provisional statements, or reach less tentative conslusions, about it (which is what I suspect you yourself will do - you sound like you care).

Grammar books make large-scale generalizations which can be helpful for teachers organizing a syllabus and getting to grips with the language, but which do little to help students (and teachers too!) to get to grips with specifics. The only way to really be sure and help improve (ultimately more the student's ability) is for the teacher to look at specific lexis (whilst juggling the likely relevant grammar points in his or her head) and see how the grammar generally pans out in actual usage. From a consideration of the lexis you can go back to the grammatical (or functional, notional, topical, whatever) syllabus as a way of helping organize that lexis for teaching.

Sometimes, of course, a grammar book is generally well-written and can make a difficult point succinctly and/or in a way that is easy to understand, but the fact is, these notes do not in themselves constitute natural conversations or activities (unless one imagines that talking ABOUT English is the only topic for an English classroom) and often need "translating" again, and a teacher who churns them out more or less verbatim is probably going to confuse the less able among the students, and won't ultimately be helping even the advanced ones to become more familar with a wide(r) range of well-chosen examples in their "proper" (?supersentential) contexts.

A teacher who refers to (rather than actually *uses!) grammar books in this "lexical" way could in fact develop some very nice (and realistic) activities for the CELTA, better than the trainers were anticipating! But you shouldn't be worrying if (more like when) you don't have time to make the "language-like behaviour" of the students under your "command" in the observed TP classes reflect real usage (of which you might only really become aware after reading, studying and thinking for months if not years!) down to the last letter.

The problem ultimately is in the nature of the initial training (short and sweet) rather than specifically in what you personally can or can't master or achieve before or during such training; that is, from the time people decide they might like to be an English teacher to the time they are certified as being a "qualified" one is obviously too short a period, given the complexities of (the English and any) language...but then, who really wants to be held back from earning and travelling, or be forced to do a longer, more expensive qualification without knowing if they really like teaching or not enough to do so? And, as we so often hear, there is also the view that 'teaching English or whatever your own language is is hardly rocket science, is it', a view with which I would concur in principle if it is meant to apply to just what the teaching in the classroom itself should be like (preparing thoroughly is another matter entirely). Myself, I take the viewpoint that the CELTA trainers could simply become a lot more ambitious for their trainees...

Anyway, generally I would make sure I was familiar with the glossary of grammatical terms that are in the back of books such as COBUILD or Eastwood and then refer to the main text when you find a point that is more interesting than puzzling. It sounds like you may have a book like Swan's PEU or Leech's A-Z...I can't remember if Swan has a glossary in it but I hope it does. (Do a search for 'glossary' on the Teacher forums to find a link to several online ones, the links should be in the first search result thread). You might also like to consider getting a book that isn't organized in an A-Z fashion but more in ways similar to the COBUILD or Eastwood:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/viewtopic.php?p=11819#11819

By the way, I'd also like to wish you good luck!

[fluffyhamster]

Basically, grammar should be there (behind the scenes) to help rather than to hinder, and if something is difficult to understand, forget about it, try a different tack and come back to it later on.

The biggest problem that I find with grammar is that it is either trying to set up divisions that may not ultimately exist (e.g. countable verus non-countable nouns - the words rather than the things and thus the meanings one might want and need to convey), or does a poor job or explaining the functional motivations for formal variation (often there is no real functional difference between forms, which means the teacher has to simply decide which would seem easiest for the students).

[VanIslander]

This is my first post on the international forums, as I'm one of those guys who often hangs out over on the Korean boards. I've been teaching ESL for two years and recently got my CELTA.

One of the top students in the CELTA class (and someone who got a 'B' advanced standing in the course) was a young adult almost right out of high school. The student's grammar wasn't even exceptional. The difference was drive and willingness to look up whatever was needed in grammar books as the course went on.

Be resourceful and research your lessons. Take the tutors' advice instead of stubbornly following one's own ways.

And you'll do just fine.

[Guy Courchesne]

Not the first time I've heard that...

[dyak]

[carnac]

Down the road, after you go through CELTA boot-camp, I very highly recommend The Grammar Book: An ESL/EFL Teacher's Course, Celce-Murcia and Larsen-Freeman, Heinle & Heinle. Not only covers all the grammar, but shows how to teach it and answer questions, as well as doing many other things. An excellent book, not just a grammar book. Goes far beyond basic prescriptivism. IMHO. If you can find/order it, take it with you everywhere as your bible. Nice fat blue hardcover book (adjective order) worth its weight in excess baggage. I loan many books, but never this one. (Except to one teacher who had the whole thing photocopied for his own personal use, 855pp.)
Read it cover-to-cover so you are familiar with it. Then for six months bring it with you to class even if you don't use it every day. A little extra ammunition in your bag.
Personal opinion/experience.
I wish you well!

[Deconstructor]

Grammar has been all the rage since the beginning of TEFL. You need to understand it well if you are to explain it well. Though it is possible to understand it well and still not be able to explain. The ability to get a point across in a clear and concise fashion is a talent that can't be taught nor learned.