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Minhang Oz
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 610
Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin
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 Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:24 am Post subject: |
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The originator of this thread has probably given up reading it in bewilderment. But to help you guys out, here's one set of stats.
Numbers are in millions, although some people might have died since they were done.
Mandarin Chinese 836
Hindi 333
Spanish 332 [yes, I'm surprised too]
English 322
Bengali 189
Arabic 186
Russian 170
Portugese 170
French is nowhere, with 72, probably behind Cantonese. Only they believe their language is important.
M. Oz No Ph.D required. |
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kimo
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 668
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Minhang, I would like to know where the math came from. Let's look at the English speaking world in millions. Though I admittedly am only guessing at the numbers and have not excluded immigrants, I believe there are more native English speakers than your figures show.
USA 280
UK 60
Ireland 3
Australia 19
Canada 20
New Zealand 3
S. Africa 5
Jamaica/Belize/
Guyana/other
Carribean
Region Lands 15
Total 405 (Totally Unscientific)
Perhaps, one of you research heads might want to pull the actual numbers. |
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jevon
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:04 am Post subject: facts |
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From the CIA Factbook 2002:
USA: 280,562,489 (July 2002 est.)
UK: 59,778,002 (July 2002 est.)
Eire: 3,883,159 (July 2002 est.)
Aussies: 19,546,792 (July 2002 est.)
Canuck: 31,902,268 (July 2002 est.), but only 54% are English speakers
-14,675,043
Kiwis: 3,908,037 (July 2002 est.)
S.Africa: 40,583,611
-10,000,000 maybe
_____________________
415,489,315
China: 1,284,303,705
-128,430,371
Singapore: 4,452,732
-1,113,183
_________________________
1,159,212,883
India (for Hindi): 313,753,568
Bangladesh (Bengali): 133,376,684
I may be off with making 10% of China speak Mandarin, it may very well be more like 20%, but, regardless, all of M. Oz's numbers are old but still valid. My numbers for Hindi differ, but I didn't add in Pakistan's 3% minority or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, because I didn't want to. With fertility rates in mind, though, I'm sure English is falling behind. Figure in secondary languages, and I'd put English a lot closer to Chinese (curious as to whether it would match or pass). |
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Minhang Oz
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 610
Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| I found these figures on a site called www.al-bab.com I'm sure every resource you look at will give different figures, but its the ranking that's the key factor here. If you look at the NESB populations of the major English speaking migrant taking nations, it would have to cut their total native speakers back by many millions- its certainly the case in Australia. And while most English speakers of whatever dialect can communicate, apparently many Arabic dialects are as mutually unintelligible as, say, Shanghaihua is to a Hunan [or Beijing] native. |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| kimo wrote: |
"Bertrand, where outside of France and Quebec(where only a relatively small number people live) do people speak French - who have any money that is?"
Pass. Don't know, don't care.
"28 Spanish speaking countries that cover a lot of territory. It's easier to rape, pillage and plunder the natural resources, or just open a Chinese restaurant if you know the local vernacular." |
True.  |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Teaching Spanish |
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| yaco wrote: |
"Bertrand, What are are you talking about ?"
Something I have studied and researched to the highest possible academic level, actually.
"The 3 most commonly spoken Languages in the world
1) English
2) Spanish
3) French"
You neither answer my points nor even understand them. So the great Yaco has been and actually COUNTED every speaker using identical criteria for each and every speaker! Wow! Serious research.
"It is irrelevant whether it is your first or tenth language.:
Only to a layman would this be ungermane. Having studied bilingualism to MA level I can tell you there are many, many different types of second or other language competence.
"We are discussing the total number of people throughout the world who can speak a language."
No, you are. I'm trying to tell you that there are only estimates and no linguist would ever attempt to give a figure without background discussion.
"Obviously this precludes Chinese ( as this is spoken predominately in the one country )."
"obviously"....? What on earth do you mean by "Chinese"?
"If, I require a PHD to read and research information - ' God help me '." |
No, you don't; you need one to critically evaluate and reflect and to be called Dr. |
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Bertrand
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Minhang Oz wrote: |
| I found these figures on a site called www.al-bab.com I'm sure every resource you look at will give different figures, but its the ranking that's the key factor here. If you look at the NESB populations of the major English speaking migrant taking nations, it would have to cut their total native speakers back by many millions- its certainly the case in Australia. And while most English speakers of whatever dialect can communicate, apparently many Arabic dialects are as mutually unintelligible as, say, Shanghaihua is to a Hunan [or Beijing] native. |
What do you mean by dialect? What linguistic definition are you using? Max Weinreich, for example, famously quipped that a dialect is a language with an army and navy. |
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Minhang Oz
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 610
Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| I think you've asked me the same question twice, but I'll answer it once. I understand "dialect" to mean a language variety used by, and characteristic of, a particular social group. What are your definitions of "pedant" and "pretentious"? A rhetorical question only. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:17 am Post subject: |
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To me, a dialect is a variant of a language that is spoken only, not written. While you can perhaps write a few dialects - Texan, Irish-English, Aussie English, if you like - they are not unintelligible to the speaker of the standard variety. That is because syntax and grammar are largely identical. It is the pronunciation and other idiosyncrasies that differ. THat is why Mandarin is a language, but Cantonese and Hunanese are mere dialects! Written, they are virtually identical to Mandarin.
It goes without saying that the longer a dialect is tolerated the farther down the road it goes towards becoming a full-fledged language. The Chinese government has always been wary of dialect developments and has been encouraging Chinese to speak Mandarin. You can often see the odd sign - in ENGLISH (sic!) "please, speak Mandarin" (Mandarin). And, overhearing some of my Cantonese-speaking little ones, I often catch someone telling them to "shuo putonghua!"
Arabic dialects are wildly different from one another, and here you can clearly see that the decision whether a language is a dialect or a language is a political one. There is no standard Arabic except in writing, and since Arabic does not use signs to symbolise vowels the words can be pronounced with A or U, I or O, as the local vernacular may deem it right!< | | |
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