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Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 361
Location: USA
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:41 am Post subject: EF Hangzhou- A Better Perspective |
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Going to China to work is a risk no matter who you work for. At least EF is an established and well operated group that offers work to inexperienced teachers.
The schools in Hangzhou are a safe "risk" for anyone who is wary of the "EF reputation". Their schools are in great locations and owned by good people who are not there just to rip you off. in fact, they're quite generous. They do not steal your passport, keep your salary or deny any benefits set forth in their contract. They don't even force you to wear a tie.
There is a bit of preparation involved but what kind of teacher doesn't prepare? If you love getting drunk and spending your days hungover, then you too can work in this school! The hours are not unreasonable and for those of you who care, there is a great international church just up the road from their east school with the acoustic styles of Chris Tomlin and Matt Redman.
I recommend this school to anyone who is serious about working in China especially if you are a new teacher. Email me if you have questions! |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:14 am Post subject: Re: EF Hangzhou- A Better Perspective |
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| Noelle wrote: |
If you love getting drunk and spending your days hungover, then you too can work in this school!
I recommend this school to anyone who is serious about working in China especially if you are a new teacher. |
Worrying. |
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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| What the Post Stamp for this message wrote: |
Author Message
Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1
Location: USA
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Here we have someone extoling the virtues of a particular EF school.
Interesting how it is the first post this person has ever made here.
Anyone smell a shill?
Or is it just the case of a newbie arrival at EF in China having a honeymoon that will be over in a few months?
Should we expect the same poster to be writing here in a few months just how bad EF is, as so many before him have done?
Maybe the person isn't even in China. The location he has given is the USA. |
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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Oh...I just got it...
The original post was....a joke....facetious...sarcasm...satire...whatever....a troll to see who would bite the fish.
I Read it too early in the morning.
It is almost April Fools Day, afterall.
Very clever.
The Tip off...
International Churches in Huangzhou don't play Matt Redman music. Everyone knows they go for the hard Rock stylings of Black Sabbath. |
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Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 361
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject: Fair enough |
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SHE is posting a reply just to say that this was HER experience.
I am not praising all EF schools in China and I didn't even finish my year due to medical issues and would love to return had I not broken their contract. I only wanted to point out that this particular school is reputable. |
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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Fair enough |
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| Noelle wrote: |
SHE is posting a reply just to say that this was HER experience.
I am not praising all EF schools in China and I didn't even finish my year due to medical issues and would love to return had I not broken their contract. I only wanted to point out that this particular school is reputable. |
Just pointing out how the message could be interpreted. The lines about EF being generous, and Churches that play Matt Redman in China were just too off the wall to be construed seriously.
In your reply:
I was initially confused by your use of the third person SHE and HER in the opening paragraph.
Maybe you posted for someone else.
Nah.
I thought it was just an example of the kind of grammar usage one comes to expect from EF teachers.
Nah.
Then I realised you were trying to make a point about sexism in language.
The Chinese are on to something in that regard. I can refer to a thing using the word "Ta", to a man using the word "Ta", and a woman using the word "Ta".
You are quite right about sexism in the english language. It's time we adopted the Chinese way of doing things. From now on I will refer to all dames as IT.
TA TA |
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Spiderman Too
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 732
Location: Caught in my own web
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I can refer to a thing using the word "Ta" |
| Quote: |
| I can refer to ............. a man using the word "Ta" |
So, here you're referring to a man's thing, right? |
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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Spiderman Too wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I can refer to a thing using the word "Ta" |
| Quote: |
| I can refer to ............. a man using the word "Ta" |
So, here you're referring to a man's thing, right? |
Nope...
To a woman's thing. |
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ResiWorld
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 283
Location: 10,000 miles from hangzhou
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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EF is the worst deal I've heard of in China.
But hey, at least they paid you. |
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Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 361
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: Too much time on your hands |
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| I envy you. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:28 pm Post subject: EF Hangzhou-A better perspective |
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Hi everyone and hi Noelle
I guess that Noelle did not come across well enough praising EF Hangzhou, when mixing it up with Churches and then drinks etc. However I believe that Noelle had a fine experience there and noone should try to take that away from Noelle. I have worked at EF and I have had good and bad experiences with them. Since I have been a DOS and got to know some DOSs as well as their stories about their centers in China, the EF Hangzhou is on the top of my list. I would not go to EF Fuzhou, because I was there and saw its CM's tricks and I would not go to EF Huizhou, becuase I was there and saw its CM's and owner's tricks too. Well that has been my bad luck to share now. In any case I would go to EF Hangzhou. It is a great location, seemingly great ownership since they have expanded to two EF school in a very shourt time there. I have worked for EF Fuzhou and EF Huizhou that have both also expanded, but not to EF centers. They wanted to cheat, they expanded in their "own" names, Enjoy English, Sunshine English... That shall give you an idea what school to join or not. Cheers! |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: EF Hangzhou-A better prospective |
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| Why are some people so quick to post negative comments on some topics on the site, and why are they not so quick to post positive comments? Do you really believe that every EF Englih First in China or elsewhere is so bad? Ohh, if you say yes, could you please explain why? Cheers |
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Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 361
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks. I couldn't agree more |
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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: Re: EF Hangzhou-A better prospective |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| Do you really believe that every EF Englih First in China or elsewhere is so bad? Ohh, if you say yes, could you please explain why? Cheers |
The majority are bad.
Why...
The culture of the fanchise operation exists to explot Ft's. When compared to other schools in China (public primary schools, middle-schools, Universities and Colleges, and private training schools), the wages are lower for more time worked per week. Shared accommodation for teachers is the norm at EF, whereas most other schools give their FT's an apartment of their own. Most other schools privide their FT's with schedules based on in-class time worked as an academic hour, while EF has a convuluted method of figuring out what constitutes or doesn't constitute actual teaching (demos are not teaching time although they take place in classrooms). Teachers work more time per month than at other schools in China. In most places FTs work six days a week on a schedule that requires they may have to teach a morning class beginning at 8:30 and then an Evening Class until 9:00 at night...split schedules are the norm.
Ef franchisees have routinely broken contracts by breaching the terms (longer work hours than stated in the contract) or promise things in the contracts of FT's which never materialise (so many paid days off at National day, Christmas, May Day...sure the teacher gets days off, but than the franchisee will schedule that time to be made up at a later date). Read the past threads here to see examples.
EF franchises are supposed to be guided by EF China Regulations. However many lacations ignore those rules entirely. Some schools do not have all the materials EF requires every franchise to have on site (i.e. Teacher resource materials and books). Many franchisees engage in active fraud under the Efacs system by doctoring student enrolments. Teachers have more students than the maximum allowed by EF guidelines as a result of this fraud.
Teachers who have left EF and Chosen to remain in the city of the franchise have faced harrassment and intimidation by the schools. See threads on the forums here related to this issue.
Ef corporate allows individual franchisees to run the operations without much intereference in the day to day management of schools. There is no quality control. Some schools have DOSes without university degrees or any academic qualification. Centre managers often lack any real managerial skills or intercultural experience which results in conflicts between management and FTs. A climate of distrust is the norm, and any problem which arises between the school and an Ft is seen as "dissension i the ranks".
Some EF franchisees routinely, and illegally, convert L tourist Visas into Z class visas for their FTs. They manage this soley based on quanxi or bribes at the local PSB or education committees. This is corruption and a violation of Chinese laws.
The standard EF contract states that EF will provide shared accommodation and pay for said flat of an FT. However, many teachers have had the franchise operator deduct "housing costs" from their teachers pay every month.
Ef franchises often use recruiters who blatantly lie to potential teachers about where and for who they will be working. A recruiter may tell a teacher he will be working of a school called "Sunshine English" or "English Me" or such thing. The teacher shows up only to discover the place is reallyan EF operation. Check out the web for examples.
When disputes arrise between the Franchisee and an FT, there are no effective means of dispute resolution in place. The Shanghai head offices will not intervene to aid resolution, often ignoring complaints of teachers who have valid gripes.
Ef Corporate is supposed to routinely inspect and re-evaluate Franchise operations at least once a year. However, visits by head office personnel to do such evaluations don't occur on schedule. When they do occur, they are just cursory rubber stamping glances. The school may be in disarray, but EF Corporate ignores any problems.
Do you want more?
Do a search on EF at Dave's.
All these issues have been discussed here at Dave's ad nauseaum.
Maybe some people have had positive experience. BUT many more have had bad experiences with EF.
The evidence is overwhelming...EF is not a good place for FT's when compared to other schools in China.
And the evidence is overwhelming that EF is not neccessarily good for it's students either. They are charged absorbitant fees, and then often times get stuck with a young teacher who speaks poor english, who does not know rules of grammar, who has no teaching background, and sees working at the school as just a way to pay the bills to bum around China.
Defend the place if you wish. In societies where the rule of law is the norm
even a scurmbag is entitled to a mouthpiece when the trial begins. But, if the facts and evidence presented are against the scurmbag, the judge will rule accordingly. |
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Zero Hero
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:13 am Post subject: Re: EF Hangzhou-A better prospective |
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| englishgibson wrote: |
| Do you really believe that every EF Englih First in China or elsewhere is so bad? Ohh, if you say yes, could you please explain why? Cheers |
Yes. Why? Because they openly compare and liken their recruits (for want of a better word) with staff at McDonald's:
http://www.englishfirst.com/partnersinfo/what.asp
"Today McDonald's has over 14,000 restaurants all over the world. And McDonald's success shows how right ray Kroc was. At EF English First, proudly we honor this same ideal."
Last edited by Zero Hero on Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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