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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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 Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| crashartist1 wrote: |
| Yes he is all talk, but he hurts more then just himself, he hurts the reputation of the school. |
Why do they let lim work then ? so it means he is just hurting himself not the school i think |
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crashartist1
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: |
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You are correct Calsimsek, drunks do do more harm the tall taletellers.
The reason why this company keeps people like this aboard is because the go through teachers like a drunk through beer. The can train 6 or 7 teachers in a week and hopefully in a month 1 or 2 might be left. Not to many people will put up with owner and all his bull, so they need to hold onto as many teachers that will stay as they can. |
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howmucharefags
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 299
Location: Eskisehir
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I wholeheartedly disagree. I am at my most effective after a refreshing 6 pack of Efes Extra. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Why do they let lim work then ? so it means he is just hurting himself not the school i think[/quote]
I don`t blame the nutters and the drinkers really. It is the crappy language schools who never learn. They offer poor pay and conditions and then are forced to employ almost anyone who turns up. The nutters and the drinkers just do the rounds. They get sacked or do a runner form one place and then go on to the next. Don`t the language school owners get sick of this merry go round? How can they stand this crap year in year out? Wouldn`t it be cheaper in the long run to offer decent pay and conditions? Then they could pick and choose the teachers they wanted. The turnover would be much lower and they could get them work permits etc. Surely the goodwill would make constant expensive advertising less necessary as word of mouth would attract students and better teaching would keep the students. But I know it is all a pipedream. Rant over. |
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crashartist1
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: |
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I totally agree with you 31, as do most of us, that if the language schools took a vested interest in their schools, the teachers and the students the schools could come up with a solution for it. The only problem is the bottom Dollar/Euro/Lira. For the most part, many of the owners don�t deal with the teachers in a direct way, but have their staff deal with the problems. Why should the offer better pay, living conditions, work/residency permits and incentives when it will just cost them more money? Many, not all, but many owners are just interested in power and money, not many actually come from an education background (as in faculty members Universities, have M.A.�s in Education or anything like that, they come from financial/business backgrounds {which seems to be a oxymoron in it�s own right here in Turkey}) Anything that will have an adverse affect on their personal bank account is not an option. There so many people in Istanbul, that a bad reputation doesn�t mean anything, not to attack E.T. but when the students see teachers coming and going at a regular pace and some of teachers look like they just rolled out of bed after a night fighting with Raki, then you are going to get a bad reputation, but E.T. still holds a majority of the market and are not about to relinquish that lead anytime soon.
Besides if they changed the way they did things, what would we have to complain about? |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Wouldn`t it be cheaper in the long run to offer decent pay and conditions? Then they could pick and choose the teachers they wanted. The turnover would be much lower and they could get them work permits etc. Surely the goodwill would make constant expensive advertising less necessary as word of mouth would attract students and better teaching would keep the students. But I know it is all a pipedream |
Actually, I don't think it's a pipedream-- I'm sure there are fewer cowboy schools here than there were a few years ago, and I expect (hope) to see fewer in the future. I mean, are there crappy language schools like this in say, Germany or France? (I don't know) But I expect that as the general English level goes up in Turkey, and as more people start learning it as a part of their primary and secondary school curricula, the market for crummy language schools will decrease, and schools will have to offer actual quality in order to survive. What I mean is, the niche for language schools will hopefully continue to shrink, and there won't be an opportunity for idiots with no educational background to try to make money off people who have no idea what it is to learn a second language.
| Quote: |
| There so many people in Istanbul, that a bad reputation doesn�t mean anything, not to attack E.T. but when the students see teachers coming and going at a regular pace and some of teachers look like they just rolled out of bed after a night fighting with Raki, then you are going to get a bad reputation, but E.T. still holds a majority of the market and are not about to relinquish that lead anytime soon. |
Although 31's rants may get repetitive, I have to say that I whole-heartedly agree with him as well as crashartist1. Everything 31 says I said myself, along with all of my colleagues from my school and others, ad nauseum, every night after work when I was in a language school. Why should I bother to limit my rakı intake or get up early for personal grooming and lesson preparation when I know my efforts aren't valued by the people I'm working for? This thread is about the teacher freaks and blackout drunks, but the fact is, those people are are the exception. Even most backpackers who come here for 8 months or a year really care about what they do, and they try hard and put in extra effort to do their jobs well, despite the crappy conditions and lack of respect. But it's extremely frustrating and de-motivating, which eventually affects the quality of our work. You just get worn down and think f*ck it, as long as I can keep the little buggers happy and entertained, and as long as they don't complain about me and the money keeps coming, it doesn't really matter what I do in my classroom. Then there's always that drunk you work with, and usually his students just think he's the bees knees because he's funny and friendly and not strict, and that just makes the problem worse, because nobody is even training students to seek and expect a quality education.
Molly keeps defending ET (and I'm not knocking that-- these schools need dedicated administrators who really care what they're doing, and I think she's doing the best she can given the situation), but the gist of her defense is generally 'ET is better than most things out there so it's good.' And this is probably true, that it's better than most things out there. However, ET is slowly eating all the other language schools in Istanbul, and it has metasticized (sp?). They can draw the students because they can afford slick and ubiquitous avdertising complete with trailers in the meydan with balloons and pretty girls dancing and Tarkan blasting. Even though I hate Interlang for not paying me, they were, at one time, a high-quality school-- the owner did have a background in education, and I think at one point he was serious about high-quality English teaching. But student numbers dropped because they were going to ET and other shiny-looking schools, and in order to compete, the quality of the education went to sh*t, with, among other things, student complaints being addressed seriously no matter how ridiculous or pedagogically invalid, and teachers being told things like 'You have to lick students' as*es more' (yes, the DOS really told me this once). So yeah, ET is better than the others but that doesn't make it good, and it seems to me that if a school is going to corner the market, then it has a responsibility to raise the bar and make crappy schools unacceptable to students. If schools stop hiring people with no certifications and work permits, and if they really expect their teachers to be professional and do a good job, the general quality of language schools and their education will go up. But keeping teachers who fall down drunk in class, or hiring pathological liars because they are charming is bullsh*t, and does a lot to keep high-quality, dedicated teachers away. Schools like ET are like Wal-Mart-- drive out the smaller competition, then lower the quality & selection and raise the prices. A successful business, yes, but at what cost to the community and consumer?
But of course, these schools can stay as they are and still make money and that is probably what will happen, and unless some new school with enough money to saturate the city with advertisements, and hire qualified teachers legally comes about, schools like ET will have no competition and can be as mediocre as they please. End of rant. |
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justme
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 1944
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Wouldn`t it be cheaper in the long run to offer decent pay and conditions? Then they could pick and choose the teachers they wanted. The turnover would be much lower and they could get them work permits etc. Surely the goodwill would make constant expensive advertising less necessary as word of mouth would attract students and better teaching would keep the students. But I know it is all a pipedream |
Actually, I don't think it's a pipedream-- I'm sure there are fewer cowboy schools here than there were a few years ago, and I expect (hope) to see fewer in the future. I mean, are there crappy language schools like this in say, Germany or France? (I don't know) But I expect that as the general English level goes up in Turkey, and as more people start learning it as a part of their primary and secondary school curricula, the market for crummy language schools will decrease, and schools will have to offer actual quality in order to survive. What I mean is, the niche for language schools will hopefully continue to shrink, and there won't be an opportunity for idiots with no educational background to try to make money off people who have no idea what it is to learn a second language.
| Quote: |
| There so many people in Istanbul, that a bad reputation doesn�t mean anything, not to attack E.T. but when the students see teachers coming and going at a regular pace and some of teachers look like they just rolled out of bed after a night fighting with Raki, then you are going to get a bad reputation, but E.T. still holds a majority of the market and are not about to relinquish that lead anytime soon. |
Although 31's rants may get repetitive, I have to say that I whole-heartedly agree with him as well as crashartist1. Everything 31 says I said myself, along with all of my colleagues from my school and others, ad nauseum, every night after work when I was in a language school. Why should I bother to limit my rakı intake or get up early for personal grooming and lesson preparation when I know my efforts aren't valued by the people I'm working for? This thread is about the teacher freaks and blackout drunks, but the fact is, those people are are the exception. Even most backpackers who come here for 8 months or a year really care about what they do, and they try hard and put in extra effort to do their jobs well, despite the crappy conditions and lack of respect. But it's extremely frustrating and de-motivating, which eventually affects the quality of our work. You just get worn down and think f*ck it, as long as I can keep the little buggers happy and entertained, and as long as they don't complain about me and the money keeps coming, it doesn't really matter what I do in my classroom. Then there's always that drunk you work with, and usually his students just think he's the bees knees because he's funny and friendly and not strict, and that just makes the problem worse, because nobody is even training students to seek and expect a quality education.
Molly keeps defending ET (and I'm not knocking that-- these schools need dedicated administrators who really care what they're doing, and I think she's doing the best she can given the situation), but the gist of her defense is generally 'ET is better than most things out there so it's good.' And this is probably true, that it's better than most things out there. However, ET is slowly eating all the other language schools in Istanbul, and it has metasticized (sp?). They can draw the students because they can afford slick and ubiquitous avdertising complete with trailers in the meydan with balloons and pretty girls dancing and Tarkan blasting. Even though I hate Interlang for not paying me, they were, at one time, a high-quality school-- the owner did have a background in education, and I think at one point he was serious about high-quality English teaching. But student numbers dropped because they were going to ET and other shiny-looking schools, and in order to compete, the quality of the education went to sh*t, with, among other things, student complaints being addressed seriously no matter how ridiculous or pedagogically invalid, and teachers being told things like 'You have to lick students' as*es more' (yes, the DOS really told me this once). So yeah, ET is better than the others but that doesn't make it good, and it seems to me that if a school is going to corner the market, then it has a responsibility to raise the bar and make crappy schools unacceptable to students. If schools stop hiring people with no certifications and work permits, and if they really expect their teachers to be professional and do a good job, the general quality of language schools and their education will go up. But keeping teachers who fall down drunk in class, or hiring pathological liars because they are charming is bullsh*t, and does a lot to keep high-quality, dedicated teachers away. Schools like ET are like Wal-Mart-- drive out the smaller competition, then lower the quality & selection and raise the prices. A successful business, yes, but at what cost to the community and consumer?
But of course, these schools can stay as they are and still make money and that is probably what will happen, and unless some new school with enough money to saturate the city with advertisements, and hire qualified teachers legally comes about, schools like ET will have no competition and can be as mediocre as they please. End of rant. |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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i think some people in my country can not understand the meaning of "Language School"....it is a private institution but is still a school isnt it? so what they have to understand is a school is a school..... yes it is private company on the other side so they should earn money and should do what they have to do to keep their place in the market.... if u cant draw the thick line between the school and the company
1. you close your school because you do not advertise and nobody knows your name...play the games according to the rules..
2.if you play the game according to the rules of "Language company" one day people realize it .... you are put into a crap Language school catagory where un/dis/misqualified backpackers work.
students dont want to see a drunk looser in the class...they want to see a really qualified teacher whose job is to teach them...
| Quote: |
| 'You have to lick students' as*es more' (yes, the DOS really told me this once). |
if spending some more time with your students after lesson or during the breaks and encouraging them that they can learn the language and praising them is licking the as*es, why not...  , but i think the DOS meant something else.... |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I don't think it's a pipedream-- I'm sure there are fewer cowboy schools here than there were a few years ago, and I expect (hope) to see fewer in the future. I mean, are there crappy language schools like this in say, Germany or France? (I don't know) But I expect that as the general English level goes up in Turkey, and as more people start learning it as a part of their primary and secondary school curricula, the market for crummy language schools will decrease, and schools will have to offer actual quality in order to survive. What I mean is, the niche for language schools will hopefully continue to shrink, and there won't be an opportunity for idiots with no educational background to try to make money off people who have no idea what it is to learn a second language.
I think the lang. school business has gone through the roof in the past five years or so and the competition for students is fierce. Ten years ago there were far fewer lang schools and in real terms the pay and conditions were better. Ten years ago it was the norm to offer monthly salaries, free accomodation, work permits etc. Now look.
| Quote: |
| There so many people in Istanbul, that a bad reputation doesn�t mean anything, not to attack E.T. but when the students see teachers coming and going at a regular pace and some of teachers look like they just rolled out of bed after a night fighting with Raki, then you are going to get a bad reputation, but E.T. still holds a majority of the market and are not about to relinquish that lead anytime soon. |
I think crashartist1 really hit the nail on the head here. The amount of young adults in Ist is so great that they have no idea how to choose which of the hundreds of lang schools to go to. Price and slick advertising win out.
Although 31's rants may get repetitive, I have to say that I whole-heartedly agree with him as well as crashartist1. Everything 31 says I said myself, along with all of my colleagues from my school and others, ad nauseum, every night after work when I was in a language school. Why should I bother to limit my rakı intake or get up early for personal grooming and lesson preparation when I know my efforts aren't valued by the people I'm working for? This thread is about the teacher freaks and blackout drunks, but the fact is, those people are are the exception. Even most backpackers who come here for 8 months or a year really care about what they do, and they try hard and put in extra effort to do their jobs well, despite the crappy conditions and lack of respect. But it's extremely frustrating and de-motivating, which eventually affects the quality of our work. You just get worn down and think f*ck it, as long as I can keep the little buggers happy and entertained, and as long as they don't complain about me and the money keeps coming, it doesn't really matter what I do in my classroom. Then there's always that drunk you work with, and usually his students just think he's the bees knees because he's funny and friendly and not strict, and that just makes the problem worse, because nobody is even training students to seek and expect a quality education.
Totally agree.
Molly keeps defending ET (and I'm not knocking that-- these schools need dedicated administrators who really care what they're doing, and I think she's doing the best she can given the situation), but the gist of her defense is generally 'ET is better than most things out there so it's good.' And this is probably true, that it's better than most things out there. However, ET is slowly eating all the other language schools in Istanbul, and it has metasticized (sp?). They can draw the students because they can afford slick and ubiquitous avdertising complete with trailers in the meydan with balloons and pretty girls dancing and Tarkan blasting. Even though I hate Interlang for not paying me, they were, at one time, a high-quality school-- the owner did have a background in education, and I think at one point he was serious about high-quality English teaching. But student numbers dropped because they were going to ET and other shiny-looking schools, and in order to compete, the quality of the education went to sh*t, with, among other things, student complaints being addressed seriously no matter how ridiculous or pedagogically invalid, and teachers being told things like 'You have to lick students' as*es more' (yes, the DOS really told me this once). So yeah, ET is better than the others but that doesn't make it good, and it seems to me that if a school is going to corner the market, then it has a responsibility to raise the bar and make crappy schools unacceptable to students. If schools stop hiring people with no certifications and work permits, and if they really expect their teachers to be professional and do a good job, the general quality of language schools and their education will go up. But keeping teachers who fall down drunk in class, or hiring pathological liars because they are charming is bullsh*t, and does a lot to keep high-quality, dedicated teachers away. Schools like ET are like Wal-Mart-- drive out the smaller competition, then lower the quality & selection and raise the prices. A successful business, yes, but at what cost to the community and consumer?
I knew Interlang in the mid 90s and you are right that they did try. Levent was a qualified teacher but I still think that Interlang was a con. I mean they charged high prices but paid the teachers a pittance. It was a slick job and as soon as Levent got a good deal he bailed.
But of course, these schools can stay as they are and still make money and that is probably what will happen, and unless some new school with enough money to saturate the city with advertisements, and hire qualified teachers legally comes about, schools like ET will have no competition and can be as mediocre as they please. End of rant.[/quote]
It just makes me bitter. |
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molly farquharson
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 839
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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OK.... where to start? Let me say first that sometimes we make mistakes and hire people who turn out to be drunks or BSers. Do we keep them? No. why? Because we are trying to be a quality language school. is that an oxymoron? perhaps, but I come from an academic background and I think with the help of our head teachers, we are more and more developing our teachers and our school to be better. I know the advertising is slick, but as someone commented, we are also a business-- founded by two teachers, I hasten to add.
I worked for a language school in the US for a while, and if there are language schools there, they are certainly not going to go away here. I suspect I have more experience than many people on this board (I am older than everyone it seems), so in that sense I think I deserve some credibility when I say that ET is working to be a good school that is good to its teachers and serves its students. Are we completely there yet? No, but we are on the way. I am quite aware of the dichotomy of education/business, but even the Harvards of the world are actually businesses. Not that I am comparing ET to Harvard, I hasten to add-- that is Koc Univ's claim (ha). I see many comments here about the money issue but few about the more altruistic issues involved in teaching. I know altruism doesn't pay the rent, but I think it is partfof the professionalism demanded of teachers.
For those of you who may have worked at ET in the past, you would see quite a few changes. For one thing, we ask for accountability from the teachers in following and noting the curriculum. They are observed regularly and are expected to be responsible. We have gotten a lot more organized. We are somewhat limited by the way things are managed but within the limits we have I think we are doing well. Yes, teachers still do border runs and we are working on it (waiting for someone...). Yes, a VERY FEW do not meet the complete criteria, but as I have said before, they have proven themselves as teachers. We also hire newbies, so which is better, a newbie with a one-month certificate or someone who has been teaching for several years without one? We have some of both, though more of the former.
Someone asked about our turnover and actually, I will look into it. We don't have a really high turnover, as most teachers stay and many renew. A few become disappearos, but it is way fewer than in the past. If teachers are problematic (drinking, liars, crappy teachers), we let them go. It damages the students, first and foremost, and it damages the business.
I think there is a lot of focus on ET because it is the biggest school and therefore more visible. We do most things pretty well or we wouldn't be successful. That doesn't mean we have to stop trying. My position is frustrating often but I am still here, still doing it. I have invested a lot of my expertise, time and energy into ET, so sometimes I have to thicken my skin a bit more. sorry if i get crabby sometime 
Last edited by molly farquharson on Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| molly farquharson wrote: |
OK.... where to start? Let me say first that sometimes we make mistakes and hire people who turn out to be drunks or BSers.
Why don`t you check references and qualifications?
Do we keep them? No. why? Because we are trying to be a quality language school. is that an oxymoron?
No it is not an oxymoron. It is possible but you really need to look at becoming legal and paying a monthly salary. Of course don`t forget sick pay, holiday pay, legal contracts, decent pay, no backpackers, degreeless DOSes etc.
perhaps, but I come from an academic background
You really work that Master`s hard.
and I think with the help of our head teachers, we are more and more developing our teachers and our school to be better. I know the advertising is slick, but as someone commented,
What did you think of the dancing girls?
we are also a business-- founded by two teachers,
Yet the rumour about it being founded by a waiter from Bodrum called Murat doesn`t go away.
I hasten to add.
I worked for a language school in the US for a while, and if there are language schools there, they are certainly not going to go away here.
Nobody said that lang schools should go away-just the crap ones.
I suspect I have more experience than many people on this board (I am older than everyone it seems), so in that sense I think I deserve some credibility
Nobody that I have spoken to doubts your experience, qualifications, hard work or credibility. You certainly show your determination by constantly defending your employer here. It baffles me why you waste your talents when you could be working for a prestigous institution like Koc. It really does.
when I say that ET is working to be a good school that is good to its teachers and serves its students. I am quite aware of the dichotomy of education/business, but even the Harvards of the world are actually businesses. Not that I am comparing ET to Harvard, I hasten to add-- that is Koc Univ's claim (ha.
Is that an ''in'' joke?
For those of you who may have worked at ET in the past, you would see quite a few changes. For one thing, we ask for accountability from the teachers in following and noting the curriculum. They are observed regularly and are expected to be responsible. We have gotten a lot more organized. We are somewhat limited by the way things are managed but within the limits we have I think we are doing well. Yes, teachers still do border runs and we are working on it (waiting for someone...). Yes, a VERY FEW do not meet the complete criteria, but as I have said before, they have proven themselves as teachers.
How did they do that before you hired them?
We also hire newbies, so which is better, a newbie with a one-month certificate or someone who has been teaching for several years without one?
What a quandry?
Someone asked about our turnover and actually, I will look into it. We don't have a really high turnover, as most teachers stay and many renew.
Few renew.
A few become disappearos, but it is way fewer than in the past. If teachers are problematic (drinking, liars, crappy teachers), we let them go. It damages the students, first and foremost, and it damages the business.
I think there is a lot of focus on ET because it is the biggest school and therefore more visible.
Yep that must be it.
We do most things pretty well or we wouldn't be successful.
What you do well is marketing and packing `em in.
That doesn't mean we have to stop trying. My position is frustrating often but I am still here, still doing it.
I am sure it is.
I have invested a lot of my expertise, time and energy into ET, so sometimes I have to thicken my skin a bit more. sorry if i get crabby sometime
How can you stand it? You are defending an illegal rip off. Don`t you have any respect for the law?
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molly farquharson
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 839
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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OK, to use 31's technique, but hopefully more clearly....
Why don`t you check references and qualifications?
We do. However, often references are not very open.
No it is not an oxymoron. It is possible but you really need to look at becoming legal and paying a monthly salary. Of course don`t forget sick pay, holiday pay, legal contracts, decent pay, no backpackers, degreeless DOSes etc.
We are a legal school, we pay monthly, we pay decently, we have legal contracts, we don't hire backpackers. No, we don't give holiday pay.
You really work that Master`s hard.
Dmn right-- more than you have, degil mi?
Yet the rumour about it being founded by a waiter from Bodrum called Murat doesn`t go away.
As I recall, you were the one that posted that rumour.
Nobody that I have spoken to doubts your experience, qualifications, hard work or credibility. You certainly show your determination by constantly defending your employer here. It baffles me why you waste your talents when you could be working for a prestigous institution like Koc. It really does.
I'm not wasting my talents. Anyway, sana ne? My life decisions are not your business. If you're so talented, why aren't you the director?
Yes, a VERY FEW do not meet the complete criteria, but as I have said before, they have proven themselves as teachers.
How did they do that before you hired them?
They taught somewhere else, as we checked their references.
What a quandry?
quandary, canim
Few renew.
That is absolutely not true. I know of several who have been with ET for several years. I know of many others who renew at least once.
What you do well is marketing and packing `em in.
I don't market, the school does. We also teach well. You forget that when you try to get at ET, you are also getting at the teachers who work there. it is insulting to them, as I think we have a good group of teachers, who work hard and try to do a good job.
How can you stand it? You are defending an illegal rip off. Don`t you have any respect for the law?
I can stand it just fine because I believe in what I do. I am not defending an illegal ripoff. I know many things in Turkey are done differently, but I also know the management at ET and I believe they are basically good people. I know the owner and he is a good man. their intentions are good, even though there is a lot of inefficiency, to my way of thinking. The owner is a capitalist. He wants to make money. of course. A company owner is supposed to do that. Can ET pay the teachers better? of course. Better benefits? Of course. But it is slow going. I don't think our teachers are suffering, though I admit sometimes they are overworked.
One last thing I want to add is the idea of initiative. When we ask for feedback on various things from the teachers, it is often hard to get. They can't be bothered. We have to press some of them to attend professional development workshops, etc. People complain about things but they rarely offer constructive suggestions as to how to change things I realize that sometimes suggestions are made and don't come to fruition, but sometimes the amount of sharing is minimal. This is a profession that takes a lot of energy and it works a lot better when it is shared. When we didn't offer professional development we were damned and now that we do, we still are.
Actually, it seems we still are for a lot of things. I acknowledge the ones that are shortcomings, but i am tired of trying to correct the misconceptions, let's say, about some of them. Plus it is getting repetitive. |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 1797
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| molly farquharson wrote: |
OK, to use 31's technique, but hopefully more clearly....
Why don`t you check references and qualifications?
We do. However, often references are not very open.
Unopen references are a real problem.
No it is not an oxymoron. It is possible but you really need to look at becoming legal and paying a monthly salary. Of course don`t forget sick pay, holiday pay, legal contracts, decent pay, no backpackers, degreeless DOSes etc.
We are a legal school,
But almost all the teachers are working illegally on a tourist visa.
we pay monthly,
Wow-as against yearly?????
we pay decently, we have legal contracts,
Re-read the thread-you cannot have a legal contract when the employee is working illegally-duh
we don't hire backpackers.
Yes you do. Et is full of `em.
No, we don't give holiday pay.
Ha Ha
You really work that Master`s hard.
Dmn right-- more than you have, degil mi?
No I have an MA.
Yet the rumour about it being founded by a waiter from Bodrum called Murat doesn`t go away.
As I recall, you were the one that posted that rumour.
Wrong again. Read the Job Info Journal and hey presto there it is.
Nobody that I have spoken to doubts your experience, qualifications, hard work or credibility. You certainly show your determination by constantly defending your employer here. It baffles me why you waste your talents when you could be working for a prestigous institution like Koc. It really does.
I'm not wasting my talents. Anyway, sana ne?
Throwing in some of your bad Turkish.
My life decisions
Life decision? Working for et?
are not your business. If you're so talented, why aren't you the director?
And be an apologist? Rip people off?
Yes, a VERY FEW do not meet the complete criteria, but as I have said before, they have proven themselves as teachers.
How did they do that before you hired them?
They taught somewhere else, as we checked their references.
But references are so open?
What a quandry?
quandary, canim
More of your limited Turkish.
Few renew.
That is absolutely not true. I know of several
SEVERAL?? THAT IS ALL?
who have been with ET for several years. I know of many others who renew at least once.
THAT IS IT
What you do well is marketing and packing `em in.
I don't market, the school does. We also teach well. You forget that when you try to get at ET, you are also getting at the teachers who work there. it is insulting to them, as I think we have a good group of teachers, who work hard and try to do a good job.
How can you stand it? You are defending an illegal rip off. Don`t you have any respect for the law?
I can stand it just fine because I believe in what I do. I am not defending an illegal ripoff. I know many things in Turkey are done differently, but I also know the management at ET and I believe they are basically good people. I know the owner
I thought there were 2.
and he is a good man. their intentions are good, even though there is a lot of inefficiency, to my way of thinking. The owner is a capitalist. He wants to make money. of course. A company owner is supposed to do that. Can ET pay the teachers better? of course. Better benefits? Of course. But it is slow going. I don't think our teachers are suffering, though I admit sometimes they are overworked.
They have to be to make a living.
One last thing I want to add is the idea of initiative. When we ask for feedback on various things from the teachers, it is often hard to get. They can't be bothered.
But I thought you said you have such a good bunch of professionals?
We have to press some of them to attend professional development workshops, etc.
Why? They are all such professionals?
People complain about things but they rarely offer constructive suggestions as to how to change things
But it is such a good school.
I realize that sometimes suggestions are made and don't come to fruition,
Like decent pay, legal workers, accomodation, holiday pay etc.
but sometimes the amount of sharing is minimal.
Why when it is so good?
This is a profession that takes a lot of energy and it works a lot better when it is shared. When we didn't offer professional development we were damned and now that we do, we still are.
ET is dammed.
Actually, it seems we still are for a lot of things. I acknowledge the ones that are shortcomings, but i am tired of trying to correct the misconceptions, let's say, about some of them. Plus it is getting repetitive. |
Give up. |
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molly farquharson
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 839
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| I think you're the one who should give up. You are on a vendetta and you say the same things over and over. I'll never give up because I am right and you are raging. |
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Otterman Ollie
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 1067
Location: South Western Turkey
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:08 am Post subject: Dry Up 31 |
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| Tell it like it is Molly , 31 take a hike . |
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