Job Discussion Forums

[hsteacher in fl]

I have several questions, and I'm hoping that I can find someone out there to help me with some realistic answers. I will be forever endebted to anyone who can shed some light on some detailed questions I have!

First, I'm a 33-year-old high-school English (literature) teacher with a Master's in Secondary Ed. I'm married to a 31-yr-old guy with a BA in Communications, but he also teaches high-school English with me. We have a 1-yr-old daughter who is totally awesome, totally flexible, totally up for adventure and highly adaptable (we're super lucky there). I have taught English/literature for 5 yrs, and have also taught EFL in Seoul and lived as an au pair in Madrid. My husband has taught English/lit for 3 yrs. We are both certified teachers in the state of Florida.

Here's the deal--In the 13 years I've been with my husband, I've been trying to get him to move overseas with me---anywhere! Now we are at a point in our careers and financial situation where we can actually make a change this summer---but I have to convince him first that I'm not insane and that real, normal people actually do this!

My main considerations in choosing a location (in the entire world) are pay vs. cost of living, safety, health, and proximity to interesting travel destinations during free time.

So,
1--If we go to China, is Kunming (Yunnan) the best spot, considering pollution, climate, and pay vs. cost of living?
2--Is anyone currently (or previously) raising American kids in China, and can you please give me detailed advice on kid-related issues (daycare, nannies, unforeseen dangers, unforeseen costs, etc.)?
3--Can anyone give us advice as to how we can best take advantage of our "professional" teaching background (the most lucrative jobs and how to go about getting them)? Note--we are looking at teaching EFL overseas as an actual career move, not just a way to fund travelling...(travel, of course, being a side benefit...)

Bearing in mind that we are plenty used to working 40+ hours and planning and grading a ton of stuff, I would be soooooo appreciative of anyone offering professional advice re: the best route for us to take. School is out for us at the end of May, and we'd like to have new jobs lined up by mid July at the latest.

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU for any help!

[WYSIWYG]

I'd guess Shanghai or Beijing would offer the most options for raising your children. I have a friend that's been living in Shanghai for 10 years with his family. His kids (10-12) love it.

I don't know the details on what the private schools his kids attend cost, but I'm assuming they are expensive.

I'm sure others can give you more details, but those 2 cities might be good for you to research.

[Chan]

I don't live in China and I don�t have kids, so I can't answer the first two questions.

I�m also a high school teacher and I considered coming to teach in an international school in China. I decided to take a job in Dubai instead, but I hope no one minds if I give my advice.

With your credentials, you should look into teaching in an international school. There are several of these schools in China. The pay is great. For example, the salary range at Shanghai American School is between $27,500 to $43,500 USD. Salaries are tax-free. Housing is provided and there are other great benefits (roundtrip transportation, relocation allowance, baggage allowance, etc.). At most of these schools, children of teachers can go to school for free. At SAS, your daughter could start going when she's 3 years old.

Most international schools hire in February and March at various job fairs. The big ones are Search Associates, UNI, ISS, and COIS. UNI (University of Northern Iowa) is the only one I have attended. It's the oldest and largest of the job fairs. I don't know about the other fairs, but the recruiters come there to hire. Most people are offered positions during the three days of the fair. Unfortunately, their fair was back in February. Search Associates also had their big fair back in February, but they have another one in June in Maryland. COIS (Council of International Schools) also has a fair in Fairfax, Virginia in June.

You could also contact the schools directly, although many won�t hire without an interview in person. It can't hurt to try though. If you're interested, let me know and I can give you a list of some of the international schools in China.

I don�t have any information about other types of schools in China, as my experience is solely with international schools. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Good luck in your search.

[hsteacher in fl]

Thanks! Anyone else know of info re: intl schools?

And still looking for info re: raising kids, etc.

[tofuman]

I recollect a similar question being raised on another thread. The consensus was, if I remember correctly, that an FT could not afford an international school on FT salary.

I would be extremely careful selecting a position here. If you are truly professional educators, you will likely find some schools simply intolerable. I've worked at one school going on two years, and the very worst imaginable scenarios regarding toxic institutions, toxic people, bosses from hell, hypocricy, unethical behaviour, etc., have aligned at times to make this place like purgatory .

I'm getting over it, however, because I believe that not all places are like this and my contract expires soon. One of the greatest advantages I have had is being independent enough to know that I can walk away any time. That knowledge empowers me to stay.

Family responsibilities require a different means of coping, because it is not as easy to just move on. So be very careful. Recently, there have been at least two couples that have said they were leaving because of intolerable conditions. One couple was here less than a month and discovered that they were basically victims of fraud and there was no remedy in sight. You might consider one of you coming over on a scouting mission before moving the family. It may seem more expensive, but it could save you quite a bit in the long run.

I would make no changes at home until you have thoroughly investigated your new situation and are sure that it is the place for you. China is not LaLa land by any measure, at least not at first glance.

[Roger]

If your travel bug is stronger than your family's, you need to rethink your options, lady!
Your priorities struck me as somewhat out of kilter.
Pollution? Money? Possibility to raise our one-year old kid? Visiting interesting places?

Why is polution higher than the rest of your priorities?

If KUNMING is your chosen place you will have to sacrifice income potentials. You both will have to work, and it's pretty hard finding two jobs in the same place, let alone in Kunming. Part of the reason is that, yes, Kunming is one of the more attractive locations. Polluiton? It still is stinking to the skies.

Next, you are specialised in teaching Literature; forget it in China! You will be doing a lacklustre so-called "oral English" job.

Finally, you need to think about affordability; your jobs here won't give you job stability, which may translate into long stretches of unemployment. You have a young child that needs stability, friends, family and a healthy environment. Your child may be adaptable - but think again: what if health scares develop? Kunming is a long way from good clinics!

Those things are considerations you need to factor in; they are by no means intended as a total rebuff to you.

[quanxie]

I would choose Gulin, Yangshuo... For many reasons, especially if I were to raise a child here... The salary is lower, but the environment is one of the best in all of China... The people are the most opened minded... It is a very culturally diverse place, yet it has the feel of China...

I my opinion, if you work for an international school you must live and work in a big city... The cities here are like living in a big construction zone with massive deterioration of anything old....

Good luck,
Phil

[hsteacher in fl]

Please let me be clear---I didn't list the things that are important to me in order!
This wasn't intended to be a definition of me as a mother/wife--I was simply trying to provide personal info briefly so that anyone out there (like the very helpful Chan) could understand what I'm looking for in an EFL/overseas teaching experience.

Let me worry about my family life! I just want professional, job-related info, and info about safety, health, etc. of locations in China.

Also--I'm not interested in sending my child in to a intl school on an FT salary------you misunderstood---Chan was suggesting that with our credentials, my husband and I could get teaching positions at an intl school, with free tuition as a benefit.

Still hoping for useful info from teachers in China...Thanks for input from Chan and tofuman.

[millie]

hsteacher in fl

[shenyanggerry]

If you're working at an international school earning international wages, who cares about the country. Because China is incredably cheap by world standards, you should be able to put 90% of your salary into investments.

Go for it!

[hsteacher in fl]

Thanks, Millie--you bring up good points--things I was concerned about re: health situation over there (pollution, toxins re: kids). I thought maybe the western part of the country might be healthier (????). But maybe not...
My husband and I considered Taiwan a few years ago---things sounded great there then, and still do now, but I do get concerned about increasing tensions btwn China and Taiwan (or am I blowing the seriousness of that situation all out of proportion, based solely on American media reports?), as I do re: S & N Korea (I've taught EFL in Seoul and the daily or near-daily air-raid drill "practices" were a bit unnerving...)

Thank you for the vivid description re: the major cities in China---I did get a clear mental picture--so I guess major cities in China are much worse than Seoul or Pusan, for example? How do cities in Taiwan compare, then? Pollution, industrialization in Seoul was incredibly yucky, but there were still suprisingly pleasant places to be found...(But I would NOT raise my child there, solely because of the pollution--unbearable!) Pusan was much nicer...

So, all you China EFLers---am I to understand that it's not really realistic to find a location/city in China where all of the following are combined in one place?:

1. Pay is high enough over cost of living so that we can save a bit (assuming my husband and I are sharing our living space, of course) and still travel a bit
2. Healthy environment
3. Modern enough facilities in the "healthy environment" so that I don't have to fear for grossly inadequate medical care, etc. (I'm not interested in "peace-corpsing" it...)

If these criteria can't be found together to a reasonable extent, then China isn't for me, and I'll start a new search elsewhere...

[audchiang]

Well, we're not in China yet, but we (my husband and I) and our two kids (18 mos and 4 years) are moving to Shanghai in July. I'll let you know how it is when we get there, but for now I can share the process that lead us there.

My husband will be doing sales work on a contract basis, and I'll be working at an bilingual kindergarten (teaching and doing administrative work). The school is paying for a 2-bedroom apartment for us, and both of our kids will be able to attend there for free. I liked the idea of being on the same campus as my kids. We're planning to stay for a year, and will think about staying longer after we're there. A lot of this will depend on how our kids are adjusting.

International schools (Shanghai American School, for example) do offer excellent salaries, although I am not sure they offer free tuition for your kids. Your child is really young, though, so your best option for childcare might be to hire a nanny, which is apparently really affordable.

While the pollution may be greater in a larger city, having the comforts of home accessible (mac and cheese if my son really really wants to have some) seemed to make sense for us.

There are lots and lots of expats (teachers and others) who are living in China with their kids. Please do not give up on this idea, just do your research and figure out if you can swing it or not. PM me if you like, and I'll let you know how things are when we move over there.

Good luck with your decision.

[hesterprynne]

I am pregnant in China at the moment and I will able to afford a nanny. I don't have your qualifications. I am here because I can do a job here for which I am well-suited, without having to finish school and compete for a limited number of jobs. It works for me. You will have two incomes and your choice of employers here. That said, reconsider. I daily miss America. My parents, on a budget of half a shoestring, took me all over California as a child to see the beauty of nature and to nourish my imagination with history and culture. This is a good place to visit, but I fear your children will miss something by living here long term. Have you truly explored your own country yet? There are so many wonderful, free or dirt cheap things for a child to do there! I find the tourist sites here overcrowded and tacky. I know I have not done all there is to do here- I would like to see Mongolia and Thailand- I would like to spend time in Hong Kong and Shanghai- I have not taken full advantage of what there is here. Perhaps I am finally taking on my mother's attitudes towards dirt, plastic and concrete. This place is not aesthetic. There are things I want my child to do here- take gong fu lessons, learn to write and speak Mandarin. But eventually I will have to deal with the fact that I also want to instill a love of nature and an appreciation of cleanliness. Please keep us posted on your decision.

[cujobytes]

[hsteacher in fl]

Thanks, guys--I appreciate your sincere thoughts & comments. My husband and I have decided to pursue international schools exclusively now, instead of teaching EFL, thanks to suggestions from Chan--The intl schools are more in line with what we want out of an overseas experience, and the benefits for our child would be better--I think we're going to therefore switch our focus to Europe, since that was our first choice. For some reason, I never considered intl schools before---the thought that we could get good jobs in EU countries never occurred to me...So I'm switching to the Europe threads...
cujobytes--That is honestly the freakiest picture I have ever seen in my entire life (and I haven't lived a sheltered one)!
Best of Luck to all!