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Dark skin in Taiwan.
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sbmoor262004



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:39 am    Post subject: racism in taiwan Reply with quote

Proof that the Taiwanese are racist? Wow, that really gave me a good laugh. Let's see...
First of all, my girlfriend is black and with all the staring and looks of disgust (she turns heads in the US and guys hit on her regularly) I can rarely convince her to leave the apartment anymore. Where she teaches, new children are accustomed to break out screaming and crying. We've been here about 7 months and the only thing that kept her sane was a month-long vacation in the US. Though my personal experience with the Taiwanese has been fairly positive, seeing how they react to and talk about black people has instilled a sense of resentment in me. They are essentially a bunch of nouveau riche peasants. Taipei is by no means the cosmopolitan city it pretends to be.
A better example. A student told me recently about a group of African ambassadors who had come to Taipei for whatever and their hosts invited them to a restaurant where they were served soup in bowls featuring caricatures of African villagers (obviously wearing a grass skirt or such) holding spears. When they noticed this, they conferred and then left in disgust. This actually seemed to surprise the government official with them. Furthermore, my student couldn't understand why they would be offended. I'll try to bring some anti-Chinese caricatures common in California last century when they effectively banned Chinese immigrants from coming at one point (i.e. bamboo hat, buck teeth and slanty eyes) and ask which of his relatives it resembles most. The Taiwanese are incredibly ignorant about the world around them. Ask a Taiwanese if they think that Asians are more evolved than 'other races' (because Asians have less body hair) and let me know what they say. Despite the nice things to be enjoyed on the island, I have never encountered such an offensive belief. Though polite, there is no warmth of the kind to be found in Latin America or Africa.
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Aristotle



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A student told me recently about a group of African ambassadors who had come to Taipei for whatever and their hosts invited them to a restaurant where they were served soup in bowls featuring caricatures of African villagers (obviously wearing a grass skirt or such) holding spears.


If I am not mistaken, the African dignitaries visiting Taiwan were not offended so much by the pictures as being served soup in paper bowls with the word "Negro" written under a rather offensive depiction of an African tribes person at a luncheon hosted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in their behalf.
The fact that this incident happened is not as surprising as how ignorantly the local press and government further insulted these dignitaries by stating that they were not very good guest and should not object to Taiwanese hospitality. Other reports stated that the Africans should "go back to Africa if they don't like Taiwan."
Taiwan is one of the most racist places I have ever been to. It is not so much the ignorance of so many of the local people which can be forgiven. It is the racist laws, regulations and administrative decrees that the government implements on Taiwan that really define Taiwan as a racist non nation.
All those of darker complexion should be commended for not only coming to Taiwan but also staying here and trying to make a change.
The local Taiwanese racist perceptions of the world outside of Taiwan are a direct result of the Taiwan Ministry of Education (a.k.a. Ministry of Racial Purity), that has been force feeding the local people racist ignorance for over 60 years.
Welcome to Taiwan!
A.


Last edited by Aristotle on Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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Fortigurn



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: racism in taiwan Reply with quote

sbmoor262004 wrote:
Proof that the Taiwanese are racist? Wow, that really gave me a good laugh. Let's see...
First of all, my girlfriend is black and with all the staring and looks of disgust (she turns heads in the US and guys hit on her regularly) I can rarely convince her to leave the apartment anymore. Where she teaches, new children are accustomed to break out screaming and crying. We've been here about 7 months and the only thing that kept her sane was a month-long vacation in the US. Though my personal experience with the Taiwanese has been fairly positive, seeing how they react to and talk about black people has instilled a sense of resentment in me. They are essentially a bunch of nouveau riche peasants. Taipei is by no means the cosmopolitan city it pretends to be.


My wife is black. I'm white. We've been here for over 9 months. I turn as many heads as she does, and even that isn't much.

We have experienced not a single instance of racism or prejudice the whole time we've been here.

I also work at Kojen with a black guy from Barbados. He works exclusively in the kids department.

They can't get enough of him. When he steps outside the staff room, he has to literally scrape them off his arms and legs.
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matchstick_man



Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 244
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for answering my question Aristotle. Sorry to hear about your experience. sbmoor262004. I know the Taiwanese can be racist but my question was about the island's government.
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sbmoor262004



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortigurn,
Are you talking about at work or outside? Has your girlfriend truly had no problems with people staring at her? Do they not stare longer and more unforgivingly than at you? Could she pass for white due to lighter skin? Every black person I've met so far has had negative things to say about living in Taiwan (somewhat balanced by a fat salary, perhaps). I tried going out with my girlfriend again yesterday and, as expected, more unsmiling stares. When I stare back at people they don't even look at me; they keep staring at her and either laugh (one thing that never fails to drive me to rage) or make rude comments. At first I thought my girlfriend was just edgy or paranoid but going out with my Chinese speaking friends I now know what they are saying about us. i feel justified in calling people ignorant who feel it is okay to insult someone in their presence. Though I have run into nice Taiwanese (and I love my students), I have never encountered this kind of rudeness in the 14 other countries I have visited / lived in. I think either you are not paying attention to how people treat your girlfriend outside of work, or you are like me, denying how ridiculously racist people are here so that you can stay here comfortably.
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Fortigurn



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbmoor262004 wrote:
Fortigurn,
Are you talking about at work or outside?


Both. She also works in a highly responsible position in an attorney's office (he's Chinese), making literally twice the money I do (she's a paralegal and the office manager for the ex-pat staff), replacing an Australian girl who used to hold that position.

I've had a number of my (Chinese and Taiwanese), colleagues at Kojen comment on how pretty she is in photos (this from girls), and on the couple of occasions that she has been to my work or attended a work function she has felt extremely comfortable, due to the very warm reception she has received from everyone, the way they've taken an interest in her and treated her like a friend.

Mind you, some of our Taiwanese teachers are pretty dark also, and no one seems to mind that either.

Quote:
Has your girlfriend truly had no problems with people staring at her?


Absolutely. Hardly anyone seems to look at either of us except for kids. I figure here in Taipei they get plenty of foreigners.

Sure we've had looks, but no one has stared except for kids under five. A couple of times we've seen kids who have stared receive a talking to from their parents, who have smiled apologetically. We've always smiled back and waved it away.

One time in the RT Mart I noticed a woman with her husband do a double take and pluck at her husband's arm to point us out. She had a friendly looking smile on her face, so I turned around to face her and gave her a smile and a nod back. She returned it, and I gave a chuckle and turned back.

I figured it was a novelty for her to see a white guy with a black girl, and she was pointing out the novelty to her husband. Neither of us felt in the least bit slighted, and we're entirely aware that we appear a novelty - we would be just as much a novelty in Australia and many places in the US.

Quote:
Do they not stare longer and more unforgivingly than at you?


Not that either of us have noticed.

Quote:
Could she pass for white due to lighter skin?


Not a chance. She's not full blooded African, she doesn't have that coal black tone which is almost purple (very attractive actually), but she is unmistakably black, not merely 'dark'. The hair is a dead giveaway also.

Quote:
Every black person I've met so far has had negative things to say about living in Taiwan (somewhat balanced by a fat salary, perhaps).


Before we came here she was in contact with the ex-pat black community, and received very favourable reports. We were very encouraged by that, and our experiences have only confirmed what we were told.

Quote:
I tried going out with my girlfriend again yesterday and, as expected, more unsmiling stares. When I stare back at people they don't even look at me; they keep staring at her and either laugh (one thing that never fails to drive me to rage) or make rude comments. At first I thought my girlfriend was just edgy or paranoid but going out with my Chinese speaking friends I now know what they are saying about us. i feel justified in calling people ignorant who feel it is okay to insult someone in their presence. Though I have run into nice Taiwanese (and I love my students), I have never encountered this kind of rudeness in the 14 other countries I have visited / lived in. I think either you are not paying attention to how people treat your girlfriend outside of work, or you are like me, denying how ridiculously racist people are here so that you can stay here comfortably.


Where do you live? I've never experienced any of this in Taipei, and as I've pointed out neither has the black guy working at Kojen where I work.

He didn't have any problems getting a Taiwanese girlfriend either.
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sbmoor262004



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fortigurn,
I am glad that your girlfriend is not having to put up with the experiences I or the blacks I have met in Taiwan have encountered. Mad Though I have been treated fairly well here I don't find the attitudes here towards other cultures (non-white European, that is) as being very accepting or tolerant. My students regularly tell me their attitudes on 'dark-skinned people' and my girlfriend's experiences certainly bear this out despite her strident efforts to maintain a chipper attitude. I'm glad to hear of an exception. I confess that even in some parts of the South in the US we were given nasty looks, but I haven't encountered them anywhere else and certainly didn't expect the degree of blatant bigotry I've found here. I hope that globalization will bring more contact between all groups and the concept of 'race,' which has already shown to be extremely flawed and, ultimately, invalid will disappear (or the ridiculous idea that non-Chinese are 'polluting' the local gene pool). Until then I know what treatment my girlfriend can expect once she leaves the apartment. Not that that really matters now that she's decided to go back early. Crying or Very sad
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Fortigurn



Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbmoor262004 wrote:
Fortigurn,
I am glad that your girlfriend is not having to put up with the experiences I or the blacks I have met in Taiwan have encountered. Mad Though I have been treated fairly well here I don't find the attitudes here towards other cultures (non-white European, that is) as being very accepting or tolerant. My students regularly tell me their attitudes on 'dark-skinned people' and my girlfriend's experiences certainly bear this out despite her strident efforts to maintain a chipper attitude. I'm glad to hear of an exception. I confess that even in some parts of the South in the US we were given nasty looks, but I haven't encountered them anywhere else and certainly didn't expect the degree of blatant bigotry I've found here. I hope that globalization will bring more contact between all groups and the concept of 'race,' which has already shown to be extremely flawed and, ultimately, invalid will disappear (or the ridiculous idea that non-Chinese are 'polluting' the local gene pool). Until then I know what treatment my girlfriend can expect once she leaves the apartment. Not that that really matters now that she's decided to go back early. Crying or Very sad


Mate, I feel for you, honest. I can only imagine you're somewhere like Taoyuan or Kaiohsiung (sp?), where attitudes appear to be more prejudiced.

To reinforce what I was saying earlier, I should point out that the husband of the woman who tugged at his arm to get him to look at my wife and I didn't even turn around. Clearly he wasn't in the slightest bit interested in gaping at a white guy with a black chick.
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