|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
 |
|
It is very confusing! However, to a potential employer in Timbuktu, an MA is an MA is an MA.
As far as I know, the MA system (4 years) is on the way out, but I'm not sure. A lot of Universities, Edinburgh for example, seem to offer a mix of BAs and MAs, all 4 year courses. Hopefully, there will be a UK standard at some point in the future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Hopefully, there will be a UK standard at some point in the future. |
Not a chance. The Scottish education system is as different from that of England and Wales as either are from those of France or Cyprus, and there is no more legal or practical reason for them to converge.
This applies to both schools and universities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russell Hadd
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 181
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:09 am Post subject: OOOOOOOOPS |
|
|
| lajzar wrote: |
If there is a difference between a normal BA and a BA with honours in the UK, I am not aware of it. It certainly has nothing to do with your achievement or the degree length.
'A' level is a natioanl standard exam, usually taken by students at age 18. Typically a student will study only 3 subjects for the two years leading up to it, and take teh corresponding exams. Universities typically ask for a certain level of pass grades in A level exams as an entry requirement. UK universities do not normally set their own entrance exams. |
Well as a UK Uni grader let me make you aware that BA on its own with no (Hons) is almoist done for. 5 years ago my grads with no HONS were able to apply for HONS!!!! BA is now more ore less done for! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Hopefully, there will be a UK standard at some point in the future. |
Not a chance. The Scottish education system is as different from that of England and Wales as either are from those of France or Cyprus, and there is no more legal or practical reason for them to converge.
This applies to both schools and universities. |
I'm afraid you're right that it won't happen. However, there would be a practical reason for Scotland and England to converge on this matter, as illustrated in above posts. It would make the whole uni/degree thing a bit more sensible. Scottish unis are full of English students and English unis have a lot of Scottish students. As the UK is supposed to be a nation, I would have thought standardization a practical way forward. The fact that Scotland has its own parliment now (and Wales has an assembly), it is indeed unlikely to happen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
3plus1
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 17
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cardinal Synn wrote: |
It is very confusing! However, to a potential employer in Timbuktu, an MA is an MA is an MA.
|
Given that most of the degrees you all talk about here are arts degrees (languages, linguistics, etc) I'll ignore sciences degrees for the following point....
In England, the first degree (undergraduate) that you do is a BA. The degree you do after that (postgraduate) is an MA.
In Scotland, the first degree (undergraduate) that you do is a BA. Sometimes. It could also be called an MA. In Scotland the terms are interchangeable, which can be confusing, because an MA is always a postgrad degree in England, but sometimes an undergrad degree in Scotland.
So an MA is not an MA always an MA.
| Quote: |
| I'm afraid you're right that it won't happen. However, there would be a practical reason for Scotland and England to converge on this matter, as illustrated in above posts. It would make the whole uni/degree thing a bit more sensible. Scottish unis are full of English students and English unis have a lot of Scottish students. As the UK is supposed to be a nation, I would have thought standardization a practical way forward. |
Given that both the Scottish and English tertiary education systems work, it doesn't make sense scrapping both of them. Logically, that means keeping one of the systems and making the other country follow the system of education in the other. Never going to happen. A lot of Scottish people hate the English and would be very hostile to following what England does, simply for convenience. And England is bigger than Scotland, so why should it do what Scotland does?
It's not just about sense, it's about individual sensibilities. There's still some North-South tension in the UK.
Personally speaking, I don't understand why there are so many English students at Scottish universities. English students are not allowed to leave school a year early then head off to uni. Scottish students can, if they so wish. So degree courses in Scotland are longer. English students don't understand or care (integration is easier if you join in with everyone at the beginning, so why skip to the second year of a course?) so they end up studying for longer than they would do in England. Goodbye, one year of your life, for no good reason.
There is definitely room for reform at a secondary school level though. Not really sure how much I see that actually happening...
S x |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One of the main reasons English students now go to Scottish universities is that the fees are less.
A second reason is no doubt the academic reputation of Universities such as St. Andrews and Edinburgh. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spinoza
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Saudi Arabia
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Last edited by Spinoza on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
3plus1
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 17
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Spinoza wrote: |
I thought tuition fees in Scotland are....non-existent? Lucky Scots. There's English people getting into 5 figures-worth of debt, and there's Scotland paying absolutely bugger all! Why Scottish students come to study in England is rather more of a mystery - financially at least. |
Scottish students studying in Scotland pay a sort of graduate tax, ie. they pay money to the government when they get a proper job after leaving university (the money is taken directly out of their paycheck, like all other taxes). They have to earn above a certain amount before they must pay this tax.
It makes more sense than paying lots of money before you get a job and leaving university with debt, I have to say... For the students, anyway. English universities get more money out of their English students than Scottish ones get out of their Scottish students, or so I've been told.
| Spinoza wrote: |
An A Level is not the name given to the type of qualification most pupils study for in their final year of secondary school. In the UK, compulsory education ceases at 16. A Levels are the qualifications done post-secondary and pre-undergraduate and are voluntary. |
Let me rephrase that. An A-level is the name given to the type of qualification most pupils study for in their final year of pre-university education if they have any inclination to go onto to university at all. You cannot get into uni solely with GSCEs or Standard Grades. You can leave school with just those, but you cannot get into uni. Well, maybe the Open University, but that's not quite the same thing...
Sx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Scottish students studying in England get a loan from the Scottish Executive to pay their fees. The real killer for all UK students are the loans they have to take out for living expenses. I believe that from 2006, English students will be charged higher fees to study at Scottish universities, though as far as I know, this is already the case. This is to give those poor Scots a better chance of studying in their own universities.
At the moment (I believe), English students pay �3600 for a four year degree course in Scotland and Scots pay �2000. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marblez
Joined: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 248
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So....
When a school requires an "honours" degree for admission (I am looking at graduate schools), then would my four year "non honours" degree be acceptable? These schools ask for 1st class standing or 2i standing (which is considered 3.5+ and 3.0 plus in Canada)
I have a GPA in the 2i range, but my school does not give honours standing, the only difference is that I would have various "Dean's List" standings.
Soooo confused. These schools haven't replied to my emails yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmb
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just to confuse things again. A friend and I did exactly the same degree at Dundee University in the late 80's early 90s (Psychology) She did hers in the science department and was awarded a BSc I did mine in the arts dept. and was awarded an MA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cardinal Synn
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You probably know this site, Marbled one, but I'll stick the address here just in case.
http://www.britishcouncil.org/canada-education
The little I know about such things (and perhaps of no practical use to you whatsoever!), is as follows. (stolen from somewhere):
Qualifying for Enrollment
As in the US and Canada, entry requirements inthe UK vary by institution, but students who wish to enroll directly at a UK university are generally expected to have a GPA of about 3.0 on a 4.0scale, and two letters of recommendation.These requirements may differ, however, when US/Canadian and UK institutions have specific agreements. Details on courses and specific entry requirements can be found at the above mentioned (and linked) site.
I'd have thought that, if your qualifications are enough for a post grad in Canada, they should be enough for the UK. But then I'm a crazy idealist which will probably be pointed out by some knobhead who would rather show everyone how hip and street he/she is rather than offer any practical assistance  .
Anyroad, the British Council site should be of some help, if you haven't already tried it.
Hope it helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
