Job Discussion Forums

mskana · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 5

'Nuff said![/quote].Now Steve Jones, I posted the article on skin colour and I am relieved to see several replies from empathetic and supportive people.However, your implication (that my spelling,grammar or whatever it was that you nit picked on), that i am a non native speaker,is frankly, quite shocking! You chose to ignore the point I was trying to make and place emphasis on what us humans call "mistakes".There could have been several reasons for improper spelling or grammatical errors.You are exactly the kind of judgemental person who contributes to the state of the tefl industry.Just because you don't look right, act right,sound right,spell right.I am glad, that you have proved to me that it is not just my imagination, but prejudice exists even in the way you spell or construct your sentences!.(feel free to highlight any mistakes,if it makes you feel better, or better yet superior!

Long ai gu · Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 135

Last semester I worked with a man in Weifang Shandong province who was from South Africa. His skin colour was as black as mine is white and blue eyed. He was a good brother and a true gentleman. He did experience rascism at the school from other teachers, be them Chinese or Korean. On a few occasions a teacher would standup and move as soon as he sat down beside them on the bus we had to take to teach at the campus. I believe these were female teachers. In all my whiteness I did not experience the same as this gentleman did. As far as I know he was quite popular with his students and didn't experience any other troubles at the school due to his skin. I also have met black teachers in Chengdu, so it's not impossible to find employment in China because you are of African descent, but are you sure you want to? I was recently cussed out and called many a horrific name by a Chinese man as I watched my girlfriend play Marjom(sic). I don't understand Chinese that well so I didn't know exactly what he was saying, but my girlfriend, who is Chinese, told me some things and I could not repeat them here, it was real bad stuff. Finally my girlfriend stood up and told him off and he got up and quickly walked away. I then stood up and said "Mei Guanxi, mei guanxi"(no problem) to the Chinese people listening to it all and my girlfriend said afterwards that the people thought I was a good warm hearted man. I didn't let one man make me hate all Chinese for his rascist comments, for that would have been rascism in itself. It takes one jerk to spoil things for everyone, don't let that jerk spoil it for you. RISE ABOVE IT...

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

Dear mskana

As has been pointed out when the post is about your alleged status as a native speaker of English, then to comment on your syntax is not prejudice, it is the very point that is under discussion.

Equally, making frequent mistakes in grammar, spelling and punctuation, as you do, is not irrational prejudice when it comes to choosing somebody to be an English teacher. Your skin color is of course irrelevant. If you were being considered for a job where your physical appearance was tee critera, then your skin color would be relevant, and your grammar and punctuation not.

It is worth noting also that your skin color is not what is causing your problems. If you had a British or American passport you would have no trouble getting a visa; your problem is that you have a Zimbabwean, South African, Nigerian or other African passport.

Let's look at the sentence which I highlighted.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, Stephen. But to be fair, I think we need to make a distinction between a casual posting on this board and a letter of application to a prospective employer.

For whatever reason, internet discussion boards have evolved as an extremely informal medium of communication. This board is peppered liberally with mistakes in grammar, spelling, and typing. I do not, however, doubt the native status of most of the posters here. They are merely being careless, in a forum where carelessness seems to be the rule.

I agree that I would not look favourably on a letter of application in which I saw the errors that are common here, but it isn't really logical to assume that the OP would use the same style, and make the same mistakes, in such a letter.

Some people do, of course, and I heartily agree that those applications belong in the recycle bin, regardless of the nationality of the poster.

Regards,

Justin

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

You'd be surprised Justin how many people treat CVs like postings to discussion groups. Possibly it's because they're sending them from the computer!

But, even if mskana doesn't make the same kind of mistakes on his resume, how are we to know that he won't go back to making them with his teaching materials, exams and other material.

There is no dispensation from the normal rules of clarity, grammar and punctuation that apply to discussion groups or to email. The rules either make sense or they don't.

The fact that postings are made with little time for reflection, excuses overhasty content, and the fact that few boards have a spellchecker excuses typos and many spelling mistakes, but I get the impression that most people ignore the normal rules of punctuation and spelling on bulletin boards because they don't give a shit and can't be bothered with them.

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject:

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

As has been pointed out, when the post is about your alleged status as a native speaker of English, to comment on your syntax does not indicate prejudice, but speaks directly to the point under discussion.

The above is one corrected version of the incredibly muddled statement offered by SJ.

His original statement not only does not make sense, but it also reflects the same kind of syntactical mishmash he appears to be criticizing.

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:43 am Post subject:

SJ,

If you stop providing unsolicited critiques of the writing of ESL Cafe posters, there will be no reason for others to point out the frequent errors in your own writing.

Sounds like a fair trade-off to me. What do you think?

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:43 am Post subject:

Oh, here's Luddy-come-lately to join the fray! What kept ya, laddie?

Laughing

Travel Zen · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:13 am Post subject:

I tink wee R alowed 2 make mesakes on the net. Doen't mattter Cool

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

There's no reason to accept even ONE mistake from Stephen Jones, given that he is the self-appointed grammar/syntax policeman of this forum.

Like most people who are self-appointed, he doesn't have the skills for the position.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

Actually, moonraven, I only ever comment on people's spelling or grammar when it is relevant to the point under discussion, as in this thread, where the OP claimed he wasn't being hired because employers were prejudiced against his skin color, and not because they were disincilined to hire somebody whose written English was full of mistakes.

The most common reason I have made a comment on grammar is because self-important blowhards such as yourself have gone around criticizing others for making non-existent grammar mistakes.