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DonofPaw
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: School Teacher Interested in Teaching Abroad |
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| Hello all, I am new to this forum and I'm looking for some advice. I'm currently a middle school teacher in the states . I have a BA in History, Middle School Education, and Secondary Education. I'm planning on teaching a few more years in the states. So I'll have about 3 years of teaching expierence once I'm ready to teach abroad. My big question/ concern is having to pay out all the money for a TEFL course when I already know the basics of running a classroom. Do you think it would be possible to just read some books on TEFL and still be an effective teacher? I might also be able to do a little volunteer work teaching ESL in the next few years. By the time I begin teaching abroad I will most likely be married to a very lovely Brit, she will have a BA in music performance. We will both have student loans but from the figures I have seen on the jobs forums it seems that teaching in Japan wouldn't be a problem and even China, Korea, and Thailand would be ok on a budget. So any advice on my question and on my situation in general would be very appreciated. |
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mlomker
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: School Teacher Interested in Teaching Abroad |
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Certified teachers from North America are very popular overseas as English teachers. If you haven't started a Masters yet then why don't you do so? You could find a class or two that is related to TEFL and obtain a few graduate credits toward your degree.
The best jobs overseas are for certified teachers with a Masters. You could do really well in Japan or the Middle East if you start working toward a MA TESOL or an M.Ed. with a TESOL focus. It'll also provide you with better positions when you come back--not sure how you could lose by heading in that direction.
Oh, and any organization that thinks a TEFL certificate has more value than your classroom experience...run away!  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Just because you can teach history doesn't necessarily mean you know how to teach English, especially to people who don't know a word of it. No offense, ok? Would you have such confidence about teaching chemistry? It's a similar concept, I think.
I'd suggest looking into the TEFL certification. Even TESL.
As for landing work in Japan, with your current teaching certification, you could be eligible for work at international schools, where you could teach English as well as history. Otherwise, your only options would be the entry level work of a conversation school English teacher or an ALT position, whether through JET, Earlham College, or a dispatch company. If you go that latter route, expect a salary of only 250,000-280,000 yen/month, which is not enough for 2 to live on, let alone pay off student loans at the same time. So, your future wefe would also have to work. What are her goals? With a BA in music, she would also qualify for the entry level English teaching jobs. |
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DonofPaw
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: Thanks for the advice so far |
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As for my masters I currently work in MA which requires me to get my masters within five years. On the negative side I have to get my masters in teaching history. (which really rots for a variety of reasons) I'm guessing that a masters in teaching history wouldn't qualify me for a better job in Japan or any other country?
I am very aware of my ignorance, at least so far as teaching English goes but I do have basic understand so far as classroom management goes. So I was thinking of teaching my self the basics rather then spending 2500 on a course. I would continue to build my teaching skills as I go.
My lady friend  would be interested in teaching as well. |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Don,
Do you really want to teach English - or do you want to teach overseas so you can travel and see the world?
As you are already an experienced and certified teacher - why not go the international school path and pursue teaching in your skill area? Most international schools want three years experience and certification. As your first overseas posting you couldn't be too selective - but you sound quite flexible about where you'd like to go anyway. My guess is you wouldn't have any difficulty landing something somewhere in the four countries that you expressed interest in. Your wages, benefits, and circumstances would, most likely, be significantly better at an international school.
Unless you really love teaching EFL, try to avoid entering a field in which you have no experience and no training - you'll end up entering near the bottom - versus entering near the top from where you are now.
Check this thread for a guy who followed a similar path and how he did it.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=19367&highlight=
Good luck! |
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DonofPaw
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: Ahhhh |
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No my heart isn't set on teaching English. Yet I would like to travel and expierence other cultures. Spent a bit of time out of the US but I've never been to Asia or the Middle East.
Hmm well thats quite a good thread thanks. The only thing I worry about is my teaching area is history. Not very in demand in the US I'm wondering how the demand is outside of the US. It looks like all the sites with actual job postings are pay sites and most people on here have no expierence with those sort of schools. But teaching in Korea with super low taxes, and no car bills sounds quite appealing. Sounds like the investment in my masters would be a good idea.
Any other good threads with information more relevant to my situation? Any other web sites? More advice is would be great.
Thanks Again,
Don |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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I think that this a pretty big decision in your life - perhaps worth the $150 or so that ISS would want you to pay. Consider it an investment. You've spent a small fortune on your education - and ISS has a similar education for you - find out your value/demand on the world market and compare it across two possibilities/options. To make a decision that will affect your wages and quality of life - possibly for the rest of your life . . . I wouldn't quibble with their fees.
There are times to save money and be careful about spending - but I don't think this is one of them.
Just my opinion. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Ahhhh |
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| DonofPaw wrote: |
No
Hmm well thats quite a good thread thanks. The only thing I worry about is my teaching area is history. Not very in demand in the US I'm wondering how the demand is outside of the US. Thanks Again,
Don |
At least you are hopefully honest though that doesn't cut a lot of ice with potential employers and would-be students overseas.
Your first post sounded unbelievably naive, and I will give you credit for that. You have, for example, the somewhat disturbing impression that your experience of running American classrooms can be transplanted to an Asian classroom... I think you must agree that you have a lot to learn yet! Apparently you are not teaching at Columbine HIgh School! That means you will have to learn from scratch how to manage a crowded class full of Asians! Do you honestly think they behave the same as the meek charges in your school?
I don't think you can "read a book" to catch up, man! You need a little of that stuff that makes mature people - experience under the most diverse circumstances for which no one comes prepared!
Also, I find it personally disturbing that people consider teaching for the mere reason of "travelling around the world". I know I am a little special on this in comparison to many others, but I would like to offer some advice to you: consider teaching abroad an experience in its own right divorced from your hopes of experiencing an exotic setting! Look at it from a PROFESSIONAL angle and forget about the alluring aspects: here too you will have to adapt, to subordinate yourself and to do your duty! Pleasures and leisure come a long time after that! And pay is normally a lot lower than in a developed nation - as it should! |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Thanks for the advice so far |
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| DonofPaw wrote: |
As for my masters I currently work in MA which requires me to get my masters within five years. On the negative side I have to get my masters in teaching history. (which really rots for a variety of reasons) I'm guessing that a masters in teaching history wouldn't qualify me for a better job in Japan or any other country?
l. |
Don, a reality check here. I teach at a university in Japan and with a Masters in history you would be out of the running for most university jobs. You could probably pick up some part time work, but full time jobs there are dozens of people here who have TESL degrees, speak the language and have experience teaching in Japan. getting a history degree would lead you up a blind alley here.
Ive never taught in Korea but Korean universities are said to be like conversation schools in japan. Its like babysitting high school kids, 40 at a time.
| DonofPaw wrote: |
AI am very aware of my ignorance, at least so far as teaching English goes but I do have basic understand so far as classroom management goes. So I was thinking of teaching my self the basics rather then spending 2500 on a course. I would continue to build my teaching skills as I go.
My lady friend would be interested in teaching as well. |
You are forgetting one small point. None of your students speak English and you dont speak Japanese. You wont be able to teach a history class like back home unless you are teaching high level students or returnees. the average freshman or sophomore student has studied english for six years but speaks virtually no English whatsoever. I see them every day.
How can you discipline students give instructions and guidance to students if you dont speak Japanese? Glenski is in a high school and can tell you what he does, but you have to consider that what works in a US high school doesnt fly here becuase of a language barrier and a different educational culture. the purpose of education is different here too, and many foreigners come unstuck over lazy and apathetic students. Students who send emails in class or sleep all the way through a lesson after working all night. Students getting attendance even though they take 3 or 4 classes off to attend a sports tournament.
Teaching an ESL class at a university here is NOT the same as standing at the front delivering a history lesson to native speakers. reading a book about TESL will not do it for you, and you wont get a job here without at least some experience teaching in Japan. |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Ahhhh |
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| Roger wrote: |
| Also, I find it personally disturbing that people consider teaching for the mere reason of "travelling around the world". I know I am a little special on this in comparison to many others, but I would like to offer some advice to you: consider teaching abroad an experience in its own right divorced from your hopes of experiencing an exotic setting! Look at it from a PROFESSIONAL angle and forget about the alluring aspects: here too you will have to adapt, to subordinate yourself and to do your duty! Pleasures and leisure come a long time after that! And pay is normally a lot lower than in a developed nation - as it should! |
A minimum work contract in Japan or Korea is usually one year, and once you have been doing a job day in day out for that long, or as long as I have, it becomes less and less exotic or a kind of extended vacation. it becomes WORK. The allure and exoticness of living here wore off long ago, and you have to deal with getting up every day, teaching 5 or 6 classes a day, 5 days a week, dealing with local staff (many of whom may exhibit racist or xenophobic tendencies) as well as large classes of unmotivated students for whom study and learning is the last thing on their minds.
Working at a language school in Japan reaps about 3 million yen or about $27,000 a year though high school jobs pay more. University jobs can pay up to $50-60,000 a year depending on qualifications. |
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DonofPaw
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject: Thanks Again |
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I really appreciate all of this advice, and please don't get me wrong I'm not going into this with an arrogant attitude at all. I just want honest advice, and I'm getting plenty of that. 
As this is still a minimum of two years away for me I'm still at the naive fact gathering stage. Yes once I'm closer to the point at which I'm going to make a long term commitment I'll pick up an ISS memebership/
I realize that teaching abroad is a real job. From the posts which I've read I also realize that my expierence in the US wouldn't translate to Asia all that well. So if I had to go with the English teaching job then I'd def look into getting some more expierence with that sort of thing. It seems that the international schools would be the best fit for my current skills. By the way is the 15-20 hour work week a myth for ESL teachers?
Thanks Again for the Advice,
Don |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Kansai
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| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks Again |
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| DonofPaw wrote: |
I. It seems that the international schools would be the best fit for my current skills. By the way is the 15-20 hour work week a myth for ESL teachers?
Thanks Again for the Advice,
Don |
Part timers will work up to 20 hours a week in Japan or 4 hours a day. You could not survive very long on 20 hours a week.
Full time is a 40-hour work week, but to avoid paying health insurance, pensions and unemployment insurance many employers here only count your in-class teaching hours or 27 hours a week or part time, not your actual work hours. The biggest language school here, NOVA saves billions of yen on its health premiums by making this distinction on hours, though its quite illegal to not pay insurance on its full time foreign teachers. 40 hours a week is full-time, not part time. |
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tedkarma
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: The World is my Oyster
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Thanks Again |
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| DonofPaw wrote: |
| By the way is the 15-20 hour work week a myth for ESL teachers? |
I depends on where you work, what you teach, and if you want to do a good job or not. My contract is 12 hours - a four-day week. But I actually teach 21 [(18 last semester) I am paid overtime]. However, I am typically in my office by 7:30am and usually there until at least 5pm.
The "hours" thing is called contact hours - quite misleading. You still need to prepare for class. At a university or similar you will need to keep attendance and grade records, students will want to come to your office to talk to you about school problems, sometimes there are meetings (none for me!), and so on. You can expect that an international school will make even great demands on your time. Some places you might need to coach a sport, sponsor a club, assist with extra-curricular activities - just like at home. You know mom will want to ask you if little Lila is doing better with her spelling this week - compared to last . . .
I'm not saying I have it hard - I don't - I have it easy. But, even then - it requires some work and some effort if you wish to do a good job and feel good about it at the end of the day. |
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DonofPaw
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wow a 12 hour work week, thats probably the best contract I've heard of so far on these boards. I realize that those are your contact hours, but are you required to stay in your office all day say if you had the first class at 9 AM and the second at 4 PM? I also realize that going the ESL route it would be tough to build a big nest egg hence my desire to teach a few more years to build up a nice back up fund. Right now my student loans are only about 160 dollars a month so that doesn't have me very worried. At worst I could dip into my savings. What I'm really considering now is the international American school system. I've been told that the pay is similar to my pay in the states I'm making mid thirties and with summer work I'm just she of forty. Each year I stay this goes up, so if I went to a recognized school my salary scale would be higher when I return home. On top of that I've heard that in places like Korea you pay almost nothing in taxes, a nice prospect as this is quite annoying and commuting to work also costs me quite a bit. I would be very interested in teaching in Turkey, ancient history is my passion, and its location is perfect for touring. Most of the starter jobs seem to be in Korea though  Anyway thanks for all the great advice. |
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ls650
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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When people talk about 20 hours per week, they are usually talking about teaching hours only. For example, my contract requires me to teach no more than 20 hours per week. It sounds like great - but I'm also required to be on-campus for 8 hours per day. I use all that time to prep lessons, mark, do paperwork - and cope with ongoing bureaucracy...  |
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