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bshabu
Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 200
Location: Kumagaya
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Brooks wrote: |
| Today in Ibaraki a train derailed but nobody was hurt. I guess JR is up *beep*`s creek. |
Today accident was the fault of the driver of the truck who was stopped(stuck) on the tracks due to trafiic. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Insensitive posts have been removed
Mod. |
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malcoml
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:03 am Post subject: |
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well turns out the driver once fell asleep while driving a train and just before the crash was going 100 km per hour.
Before the crash he missed the previous station and lied and said he was closer to the station than he really was. He was punished before and thought he would get in trouble.
Two minutes later the train would be going nowhere.
The guy just murdered 73 people and destroyed 73 families.
Today in Ibaraki a train derailed but nobody was hurt. I guess JR is up *beep*`s creek. |
Don't be so quick to judge the driver. Leave an investigation to do this, that is what they are for.
You need to ask yourself why had the driver fallen aslep? Why did the driver feel the need to lie to management?
Is he responsible or is JR responsible, as they are the ones who set these strict timetables.
It is common for everyone to point the finger at the employee when crap hits the fan but you will find that all lower level employees have a higher one pushing them with a big stick. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: |
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because Malcolm, train wrecks don`t happen every day.
Why do you think all these boxes were carted away from JR West? Because investigators want to know about the driver`s performance over the past eleven months. |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Was watching the news last night and there were 2 factors that semeed to contribute to the crash.
Speed was defintiely one of them. The driver had just missed a platform by 40M and this delayed his train by about 90 seconds.
He also asked his conductor to under report the distance. Thus intially it was thought he missed by only 8m.
This would have been fine if not for the numerous connections commuters would have to make at the station, one of Kansai's busiest, the train was heading to when it crashed.
No doubt the preassure was on the driver to make up time. Not to mention that fact that he probably didn't want the managment to find out that he had just overshot the platform at his previous stop.
So he was speeding , yes but the other factor is interesting.
The news report also showed investigators looking at the tracks where there appeared to be crsuhed rocks that had been placed on the tracks and that this may, in combination with the curve in the track, contributed to the crash..
Regardless, an absolute tragedy this one.. |
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malcoml
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The guy just murdered 73 people and destroyed 73 families. |
I'm well aware why they are carted away. But look at what you have written, you are pointing the finger at the driver based on what you have seen on the tv and listened to on the radio.
What I'm saying is if the driver is at fault don't just point a finger, find the reason why he was behaving like this. (sleeping, speeding, telling lies). It does not sound like normal work ethic or behaviour.
I'm speaking from the experience of friends who worked in the bus industry. A time table was designed in the UK and they tried to implement it in Australia. It was never going to work here. What this caused was drivers constantly not making schedule and receiving written warnings. Drivers were then left with three options. Quit their job, continue to be late and get fired or speed to make up time. The company knew that their drivers were speeding as they knew their bus schedule was not workable. The schedules were designed to keep the buses as efficent as possible and to do this they needed to put the drivers under stress.
Is this the case with JR? Thats the question that needs to be answered.
Any idiot can point the finger at the obvious suspect and accuse them of murder. An intelligent person will did a little deeper to find who is really responsible. Is JR rail faced with a situation of numerous drivers under extreme stress and was this accident well overdue. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="malcoml"]
| Quote: |
TIs this the case with JR? Thats the question that needs to be answered.
Any idiot can point the finger at the obvious suspect and accuse them of murder. An intelligent person will did a little deeper to find who is really responsible. Is JR rail faced with a situation of numerous drivers under extreme stress and was this accident well overdue. |
Malcolm
The same driver was disciplined last year because he overshot the platform at a station. Ever hear of lightning striking twice?
You can point the fingers all you want, but he was the one behind the controls, he was going too fast, and the buck stops with the driver. It was a perfectly good train till it plowed off the rails and into a building.
Unfortunately he is dead now (they apparently found the body) so i guess we will never know. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:16 am Post subject: |
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idiot? Who are you calling an idiot?
So some people are idiots, and some are are half-breeds, according to you Malcolm.
You really need to express yourself better. |
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malcoml
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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PAULH
If the same thing happened last month then why was he still behind the wheel. So far I have been told he speeds, he sleeps on the job and he is unable to stop the train at the correct location. Perhapes he should have been stood down some time ago. This sounds like atleast some negligence on the behalf of JR.
If I employ a drunk to drive a taxi and he crashes the cab and kills the passengers who is responsible? You don't need a Law degree to understand I have a duty of care to the customer. I employed the driver knowing he was drunk. JR has kept this guy driving knowing how he works.
BRooks
I believe I said any idiot. This means any idiot who is simply pointing their finger before they have received information from the investigation. If the driver is as bad as everyone says why was he on the job. At the end of the day whatever your opinion is if someone is found to be financiall responsible for the accident it wont be the driver. JR will be footing this bill. They kept him working knowing to well his work ethic.
One more thing, I can express myself how ever I want and if you are not happy don't reply. It will be a cold day in hell before any Drama-Music-Conversation teacher tells me what to do or how to express myself. |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:48 am Post subject: |
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I have a hypothetical question for y'all...
And this is meant in all seriousness.... Not as flame or troll bait.... but
IF you were the driver of the train, having survived such an incident, would you be able to live with yourself, knowing that you had the deaths of over 70 people on your conscience? IF yes, then what would you do to make your life bearable?
(Remembering the fact that this dude is all of 23 yrs old...) |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| JimDunlop2 wrote: |
I have a hypothetical question for y'all...
And this is meant in all seriousness.... Not as flame or troll bait.... but
IF you were the driver of the train, having survived such an incident, would you be able to live with yourself, knowing that you had the deaths of over 70 people on your conscience? IF yes, then what would you do to make your life bearable?
(Remembering the fact that this dude is all of 23 yrs old...) |
Just think Jim, thats two whole university-size classes we are talking about here.
I would think he would be in for some serious counselling and I wouldnt be surprised if he drank heavily or took his own life later. Pretty hard to cope I would say.
Remember the US Navy submarine captain in Hawaii who sank a japanese training boat and killed 9 people? he took it pretty hard and took early (forced) retirement from the Navy. he was a grown man too. |
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JimDunlop2
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I just CAN'T even imagine such a horrible thing. That would be like be slamming the door of my school's office and having the entire roof collapse on the entire teaching staff AND PTA....
Yer right... Counselling I guess... Though how a psychologist might even begin with such a case is hard to fathom.... especially given that most of Japan has progressed very little past Freud (or so I've been told). |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Osaka friends-are you okay? |
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| spidey wrote: |
| stillnosheep wrote: |
| Lynn wrote: |
| I just read the horrible news about the train accident in Osaka. I know we have a lot of Osaka members here. Please let us know if you are okay. Our prayers are with you. |
MOD EDIT |
Stillnosleep...
You've reached an all-time low. Are you truly as shallow as you appear? Or do you lack the ability to empathize with the people here trying to cope with such a tragedy?
If you have no need to express yourself concerning this tragedy, then stay the hell out of this thread. |
So it is perfectly OK to brand the driver a murderer based on the rumour that he was driving the train faxt trying to make up time but out-of-order to suggest that public avowals of one's prayerfulness and requests for us all to sign in with our still-living status misses the point somewhat.
The people coping with the tragedy are those directly or by close familial or friendship-loinks affected by it and/or involved in the rescue effort. The rest of us are just talking about it.
I hate to agree with malcolml whose stupid comments about half-whatevers and attempts to justify rascist terminolgy-use in the past I have found totally out-of-order but here is exactly right. Why did the driver feel the need to take such risks to make up for 90 seconds (if indeed that was the 'cause')?
Or shall we yet again find one poor easily scapegoated employee to carry the can. In this case (as it is so often so), a dead one who can't answer back. If you look hard enough for insensitivity you'lll probably find it. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Osaka friends-are you okay? |
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| spidey wrote: |
| stillnosheep wrote: |
| Lynn wrote: |
| I just read the horrible news about the train accident in Osaka. I know we have a lot of Osaka members here. Please let us know if you are okay. Our prayers are with you. |
MOD EDIT |
Stillnosleep...
You've reached an all-time low. Are you truly as shallow as you appear? Or do you lack the ability to empathize with the people here trying to cope with such a tragedy?
If you have no need to express yourself concerning this tragedy, then stay the hell out of this thread. |
So it is perfectly OK to brand the driver a murderer based on the rumour that he was driving the train faxt trying to make up time but out-of-order to suggest that public avowals of one's prayerfulness and requests for us all to sign in with our still-living status misses the point somewhat.
The people coping with the tragedy are those directly or by close familial or friendship-loinks affected by it and/or involved in the rescue effort. The rest of us are just talking about it.
I hate to agree with malcolml whose stupid comments about half-whatevers and attempts to justify rascist terminolgy-use in the past I have found totally out-of-order but here is exactly right. Why did the driver feel the need to take such risks to make up for 90 seconds (if indeed that was the 'cause')?
Or shall we yet again find one poor easily scapegoated employee to carry the can. In this case (as it is so often so), a dead one who can't answer back. If you look hard enough for insensitivity you'll probably find it. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Osaka friends-are you okay? |
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| stillnosheep wrote: |
| [ If you look hard enough for insensitivity you'll probably find it. |
No need. It found us no problem. How would you feel if one of your students was one of the victims? One of your neighbors? My wife told me that two students from Doshisha University were among the victims. i used to teach there.
I lost a student who died in a violent car accident coming back from a school festival.
How about a little compassion here?
Are you going to say the Thai government is at fault for building beach resorts in the way of a tsunami? Where does the buck passing stop? |
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