Job Discussion Forums

[juneinchina]

Has anyone got any experience in trying to work as a teacher in China as a consultant / contractor, rather than as an employee? Thanks, June

[Roger]

and, what's the difference, please?
"Oh, you see, sir, I have a CELTA, but I am not a teacher. I thought you could elevate me to something labelled 'consul...err, counsellor, oops, I mean accountant, wrong again, i mean conman..."

[juneinchina]

Well!!! Thanks Roger. I will remember you comments.
And nope, it not about ego...it's about getting paid.
I have always worked for myself in Australia, as a sole trader: registered business owner. I prefer the independance. I was wondering if anyone knew if it were possible in China.

[Explorer]

[yaco]

Receiving correct pay and entitlements in China 'is an artform'.

Would you be more certain of receiving your slary wages if you are a contractor ?

[juneinchina]

Hi Yaco,
I guess that's what I am exploring.
Over here I invoice whoever I'm working for and they pay the invoice, same as any other business deal. It's not salary or wages, it's business to business.
I just wanted to know if anyone is working this way (as a teacher) in China. (Legally...legally....!)

[smarts]

In Australia, if your customers dont pay up, you can finally seek legal remedies, to claim what is rightfully yours.

In theory, you can do the same in China, but in practice it wont come out that way.

Virtually all businesses in China - foreign & Chinese - experience the problem of receiving the agreed renumeration for the work / service etc etc that is provided.

The legal system cant really be relied upon to enforce law or contract.

Therefore, a key aspect of doing business in China is to devise the method by which you get paid.

This is not peculiar to China, but it is certainly something that needs carefull attention and consideration when doing business in China.

[yaco]

What is legal in China ?

To work legally as a teacher you need a Z Visa, Resident Permit and Foreign Experts Certificate .

To apply for a Business Visa you need to be sponsored by an employer.

Maybe others can shed light on the legalities of your situation.

[wOZfromOZ]

JUNE....

......Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:26 am

and said,

"Well ll!!! Thanks Roger. I will remember you comments.
And nope, it not about ego...it's about getting paid.
I have always worked for myself in Australia, as a sole trader: registered business owner. I prefer the independance. I was wondering if anyone knew if it were possible in China."

June says she was a sole trader and Business Owner
Darling I've got a couple of bits of advice for you -

Dont come into this place and start slagging off at the person I'd rate as the most prolific poster of accurate, considered and appropriate advice.

Roger's on the money -well most times mate!!!


June - You wont have a problem in remembering Roger ...... when your little foray into the chinese teaching/ consulting / share trading/ or DOS realm is dead, burried and long forgotten Roger and I will still be here
trying to guide on the pitfalls of the 'shonks' who come here to get what they can!

wOZfromOZ

[Roger]

OK, June, you did not burn me with your reply, thanks. Let me tell you that my sarcasm was totally justified, even if it might not have been fair to you. The reason is simple: anyone using such fuzzy terms like "consultant" is an opportunist and does not work in a straitforward manner.
You cannot just storm into China and heap money for yourself. The domestic market is still protected, and is gradually opening up to the world, owing to CHina's entry into the WTO.
For foreign nationals, there basically are two legal ways to set foot in the PRC:
a) as employee (with the help of a local sponsor who must guarantee
that you are needed because of your qualifications - similar to the
legal provisions in most western countries that protect their own
citizens from unfair job competition). I think no one can find fault
with this provision.
b) You can do business in the PRC, either as an investor, or as a
trader. In your case, investor might be an option. As a foreigner,
you will be expected to invest a minimum of 500'000 RMB, and if
that is too much (which it probably is for a training centre), then you
must cooperate with a local, which is a bit dicey.

Another solution, whereby you are the boss but you are not an investort is not conceivable.
And, anybody making more than 4000 RMB a month is liable to pay taxes.
If you have a business visa and spend 183 days a year in China, you are subject to taxation too.
If you think you can offer services from outside China to be performed inside China - like training staff - you will need a local sponsor, and you will pay tax too.
The Chinese like investors best. And they prefer businesses in which knowhow and technologies are transferred to China!

[wOZfromOZ]

Sunaru

Certainly nothing about that in my job description - I thought that was why I was asked to do the 'godderators' job. My impression was that the powers here were concerned that I was hiding in my shell too much.

Roger's recent fall from grace is your opinion. I think he's been at his best and most intuitative.

Dont forget that this Daves Job board has undergone some very stressful experiences over the last few weeks - more bizzare than anything I've seen over the few years I've been cheching things out.

And you check out the moderators - my name is no longer there. We dont get paid for the thankless job we do! I reckon on the basis of the time it's consumed and the stress it's caused me in just under 2 weeks it's got to be worth about 10000Y/month ie US$250.oo/ week.

Your comment about maintaining civility needs a little exploration and extrapolation. From mine and others' experience here, one simply cant let people post anything here and expect to escape with impunity. When the crazies and the demented, intellectually challenged and sexually disoriented visit this site and distort, pollute and otherwise disturb the tranquil waters of what I've found to be a rather wonderful escape from the daily strain of EFL teaching ......and Sunaru
I'm gonna go after them.....
hunt 'em down .......and make 'em call to account. This is our space and it's our responsibility to keep it a place of civilized interaction!

Senor....hope you dont mind my rant for the night LOL

wOZfromOZ

and speaking of bizarre ....../////////how's my good pal "Jeff" these days -( my 20th centyry nemesis)
wonder if he's still here lurking
surreptitiously under a tree somewhere like a fresh .......

[Bertrand]

Yes, I oversaw structural changes to EF English Farce's curriculum and teaching methodology.

[Explorer]

[chinafriendhere]

I have been here since 1999, and from my opinion Roger is right on 99% of the time. He is the China authority when you need an answer to your question. His advice may have been blunt but it is once again right on target.