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james_baldrey
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: Is this MA acceptable? |
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So here is my situation......graduated from UK uni with BA and MSc in Business Management and international Management. Did 2 years teaching english at a Thai college. Then went back to UK to do my CELTA (grade A) and then came to Korea where i wll finish my one year university contract next February. After this contract i hope to have been involved in the publishing of an ESL text book also.
I had planned to do an MA in TESOL in Thailand, but now i am sooooo confused! I would like to teach at a good universitiy so will a master degree from Thailand hold any weight when i apply for jobs at universities? After all that (Sorry!!) what advice would you give in terms of the next qualification i should do in terms of getting a good job? Any advice woudl be most welcome!!
Cheers! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Is this MA acceptable? |
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| james_baldrey wrote: |
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So here is my situation......graduated from UK uni with BA and MSc in Business Management and international Management. Did 2 years teaching english at a Thai college. Then went back to UK to do my CELTA (grade A) and then came to Korea where i wll finish my one year university contract next February. After this contract i hope to have been involved in the publishing of an ESL text book also.
I had planned to do an MA in TESOL in Thailand, but now i am sooooo confused! I would like to teach at a good universitiy so will a master degree from Thailand hold any weight when i apply for jobs at universities? After all that (Sorry!!) what advice would you give in terms of the next qualification i should do in terms of getting a good job? Any advice woudl be most welcome!!
Cheers! |
James, my question is why you would consider doing a graduate degree at a university in a country where English is not the native language, and a degre from a non-English speaking university would not be considered in the same league as a degree from an English speaking country.
There are obviously a number of factors involved but you may want to consider a degree done by distance learning in Australia.
Secondly, you will not get a job at a 'good university' in japan unless
1. You have a good masters degree in TESOl. Linguistics or English and publications. Business degree will be considered a non-related degree. Afew schools now are even starting to ask for PhDs to teach oral communication classes.
2. You have previous teaching experience in Japan, teaching japanese students. Teaching at a Korean university is considered the equivalent of teaching at a conversation school here and a Thai university does not even enter into the equation.
3. Some spoken and conversational Japanese ability is preferred but not essential. Many jobs (80%) are only advertised in Japanese and having a referral or a contact, some one you know is what gets your foot in the door.
4. You are in Japan to respond to job postings and can attend interviews. You may be expected to travel at your own cost to interviews, and being accepted while still overseas is relatively rare. Only really in the case of PhD's and distinguished guest lecturers invited by the university.
For hiring purposes publishing text books dont really hold much weight here when applying for university jobs- its a start but it is ranked less than an academic publication. Virtually anyone can write and self-publish a book and slap his name on it with no editing or proofing and call it a publication.
A refereed publication (or even an unrefereed one) published in a journal takes a little more work and effort.
My advice: you would need to be in Japan and then get hired somewhere part time, get to know people, work on putting out some publications as well as getting some in-Japan experience. Depending on your long term goals a Masters in TESOL from an Australian or a British university is a good idea. Temple University has a branch campus but its very expensive to attend and there are only three locations throughout Japan. A bit tough if you are out in the boonies at a local university and cant attend lectures.
CELTAs are not really sought after here and many universities do not even ask for them on the list of requirements. they assume you have the experience skills and academic knowledge required to teach a university class and dont need extra remedial instruction. Unlike Thailand and Korea the bar is set much higher for getting jobs and there is a lot of competion for teaching spots.
For more info on university jobs
http://www.eltnews.com/guides/universities/index.shtml
Job listings:
http://jrecin.jst.go.jp
(click on English link for job postings in English)
For info on TUJ (Im a graduate from there) and distance learning
http://www.teachinginjapan.com/continuinged.html |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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james_baldrey
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| The MA in Thailand is taught by native speakers who all hold PHd's and masters in tesol and lingusitics etc. I still appreciate the difficulty in getting a uni job in Japan, but i am very determined. I just really need to know whether a TESOL from a non-native speaking country would see my CV chcuked in the bin or not! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| james_baldrey wrote: |
| The MA in Thailand is taught by native speakers who all hold PHd's and masters in tesol and lingusitics etc. I still appreciate the difficulty in getting a uni job in Japan, but i am very determined. I just really need to know whether a TESOL from a non-native speaking country would see my CV chcuked in the bin or not! |
James I have sent you some postings
FWIW Most schools here only hire native speakers of English and they assume you have a degree from an English speaking country. It would not occur to them to ask about a degree from non-native country especially when teaching TESOL.
Such a request flies under the radar and I have no answer for that one. All I can say is give it your best shot when applying, as i have no idea what the hiring policies of individual universities are, past what I have already sent you. Be prepared for some "no's" though. I have had enough to last a lifetime even with an American TESOL degree. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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PS
Is it at Payap University in Thailand? I know nothing about the accreditation or international reputation of this one
http://tefl.payap.ac.th/ |
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james_baldrey
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I am looking at that one and other MA's from Thammasat, Chulalongkorn and ABAC university. Thammasat and Chula are no.1 and 2 in the country. I have no idea about PAYAP. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| james_baldrey wrote: |
| I just really need to know whether a TESOL from a non-native speaking country would see my CV chcuked in the bin or not! |
Fair or not, we would have chucked it at the Japanese universities I've worked at--too many qualified, published native speakers applying with degrees (distance or otherwise) from reputable universities in English-speaking countries to justify serious consideration to someone who received his/her degree elsewhere. Again, this is not a comment on the quality of the degree itself; there's just too much competition in Japan for the few full-time positions available. |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| I'm shopping for an MA program and am cautious about online ones from accredited US schools. I won't even bother with anything from a non-English speaking country. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| james_baldrey wrote: |
| The MA in Thailand is taught by native speakers who all hold PHd's and masters in tesol and lingusitics etc. I still appreciate the difficulty in getting a uni job in Japan, but i am very determined. I just really need to know whether a TESOL from a non-native speaking country would see my CV chcuked in the bin or not! |
This may be true, but you would probably be appalled at the level of English of your fellow classmates. Orally, they might be fine, but their writing would probably not be up to scratch to what you think a graduate level should be. Whereas you might shine in comparison, this would dumb down the class and level of expectation. I'm not singling out Thailand here, but most countries where English is not a first language. Certainly some of the students may be excellent, but I doubt the majority would be. |
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chinagirl
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 235
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: justify |
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All of your points are valid, and indeed the program might be fine...but do you really want to have to justify your decision for the rest of your life? You will...as will the online degree holders. That's just the way it is. If I were hiring an instructor or professor from an English-speaking country and they had a master's from Thailand or another country where English was not the native language, I would be very doubtful and probably wouldn't hire them. Fair? No. But you will be competing with people who came out of programs in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, Great Britain...
The exception would be if you could find a program abroad run by a uni such as Temple (which has a MA TESOL in Tokyo).
Rather than take the cheapest way out, find a high-quality program that is respected, take a year or two, and do it. You'll have it for the rest of your career, and won't have to defend yourself each time someone asks you about your education.
CG
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The exception would be if you could find a program abroad run by a uni such as Temple (which has a MA TESOL in Tokyo).
CG |
FYI Temple has a Masters in Education and a D.Ed, not an MA.
http://www.tuj.ac.jp
Columbia offers a Masters in Arts in TESOL at its Tokyo campus. |
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chinagirl
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 235
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| oops! I knew it was a master's degree..thanks for the correction, Paul. |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: justify |
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| chinagirl wrote: |
| ...but do you really want to have to justify your decision for the rest of your life? You will...as will the online degree holders. That's just the way it is. |
Exactly. I'm looking at online degrees because it's my only option. I'm staying away from places such as U Phoenix that are known as online schools. These schools might offer a good education, but stereotypes are the order of the day in the job market. There are also traditionally-schooled colleagues to be considered. Although it's possible for an online-degreed teacher to perform better than a traditionally-degreed colleague, many of those colleagues will still see the online-degreed teacher as less-than (and will be happy to share that opinion with others). I thought it would be best to look for a program that doesn't indicate online status on the diploma, but they all at least annotate it on the transcripts. I'm sure there are also employers who make a point of asking about the program's delivery method.
Degrees from overseas satellite campuses can also fall under this category. I interviewed for a job on one of the military bases in Japan, and the first thing they asked was if my BA from Temple was done in Philadelphia or Tokyo. When I said it was entirely in Philadelphia, they looked relieved. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: justify |
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| Vince wrote: |
| [Degrees from overseas satellite campuses can also fall under this category. I interviewed for a job on one of the military bases in Japan, and the first thing they asked was if my BA from Temple was done in Philadelphia or Tokyo. When I said it was entirely in Philadelphia, they looked relieved. |
Vince I did my entire degree at Temple in Osaka. The courses and teachers are identical to the ones in Philadelphia, as is the certificate you receive. There is NO difference between a Temple degree done in Japan and one done in in Philadelphia. MY Temple degree was recognised by Min of Ed here when i worked at a national university.
I am currently doing my degree by distance and no where on the degree does it say distance or online. Its the same degree as the locals get. Gordon is also doing his degree by distance with University of Southern Queensland.
PS you need to make a distinction between online and distance learning. the only online I do is communicating with my supervisor by email. The rest I still have to write the dissertation and do the study and research as if I was on campus. Distance dgrees from accreditted institutions are recognised as legitimate degrees. Online degrees from diploma mills are NOT. |
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