Job Discussion Forums

[Deconstructor]

Look guys, I wasn�t defining intermediate level as one with vocab of 100 words. To me that is a beginner. Of course, we should be careful in defining levels solely based on the number of words a student has. It is how well those words are manipulated rather than their quantity, which may be passive.

My point was that at this junction of about 100 words, it is possible to introduce authentic material. I am currently teaching an elementary 1 class. The students have very little language and couldn't communicate beyond a single word "sentences". Yet I'm making them read, listen to, short stories of about 50 to 100 words. This comes from a book called Amazing Stories: To Tell and Retell by Berish & Thibaudeau. After building a lot of background through pictures, I read the story to them, then each student reads a few lines out loud. This is for general comprehension, pronunciation and getting comfortable with language. Following this, students read the text one more time silently. Repetition is fundamental! Now students are ready to work together and answer some comprehension questions, which is pretty tough. I help them make sense of the text and the questions without making it too easy on them. Students must rely on each other; the teacher is the last resort. In fact, I tell them, �Don�t come to me before you go to each other. I will not help�. They also do vocab building tasks; there may be some crossword puzzles and other games, too, connected with the text. At this point, I ask them to tell each other one or two pieces of information from the text without reading. This is very challenging for the students because they are about to produce for the first time. They do an incredible job if the teacher is patient and knows when to help and not help! I don't expect them to get everything right, but the point is to work together and try to make sense of all that information and try to feel comfortable with language and grab it by the horns. The idea is to survive just as they would have to in the real world.

For homework they have to read the story as many times as possilbe to be able to retell it in class, at least 2/3 of it. You should see the faces of my students when they realize that they can actually tell a story a week into the program!!!!!

As far as advertising material goes, imagine a few lines that say, �Think of roses this year for your mother. Give her the beauty that she is�. Here, I want students to understand the general meaning of the message, that is, give flowers to one�s mother. As a class we can work together and try to make sense of the message.

Part of my job is to instil in them the idea that nothing in English is beyond their reach. I never forget that a large part of my job is being a psychologist because language learning is more connected to emotions and intuition than to the rational mind.

I wish there was a competition where we could have a group of beginners and see how far we can take them in say six months using different methods.

[moonraven]

I agree that most EFL classes are lower than the pits. EFL teachers go from one inappropriate text series to another, while their students go from abyss to abyss.

Students need to deal with the "real" language--especially since they are not living in the linguistic context of the language they are learning. In Intermediate levels in the institute where I was a director in Mexico (a branch of the largest EFL organization in the country), students in Intermediate levels were required BY THE PROGRAM to bring in a news article with its summary once a week--and then to discuss their stories in class. That is just one example. (But it is a significant one, as I have told friends considering EFL as a means to "change cultures" that they will never change cultures if they can't get up in the morning and read the newspapers of the country where they are living.)

Students need to receive a complete menu of what a language has to offer if they are going to be successful language learners. Sheltering students from language by giving them pre-digested pablum is beyond foolish--it is ripping them off. And more than anything else, it generally reflects instructors' fears....

[Deconstructor]

[moonraven]

Here in Latin America, actually, there are folks who are finally implementing the pedagogical model of Paulo Freire. I don't know if he was way ahead of his time, or if the teaching world has simply always been retrograde. In Brazil--where Freire began to develop programs, before the US backed a military coup in 1964 that sent him into exile (part of which he spent at Harvard)--as well as in Venezuela, Freire's model is coming into its own.

Freire believed that a classroom was a place of dialog--where teacher and student meet on equal footing--and not a place to deposit information into a student (educaci�n bancaria).

EFL teachers, in the majority or more, have entered the classroom after taking a "certification" course that gives them license to replicate the model of depositing information that they themselves were subjected to. The classroom, in that model, is 100% artificial. And its artifical roots are in the misconception that teachers a)are superior to students and b)are capable of transferring knowledge to them. Both are completely bogus assumptions--but most teachers are too scared to confront that reality.

So, instead of creating and maintaining a dialog with their students they indulge in diddling with silly games, time-wasting "communicative activities", coma-causing grammar explanations, (integrated) four-skills exams and other dehumanizing machinations--all of which impede communication (the main purpose of language) and the critical process of learning. And, in the way of "professional development" those same "teachers" attend workshops on how to "use" the latest version of some pile of excrement such as "Interchange" or "Headway".

I would really like to know why so many of you are terrified of coloring outside the lines of what the parasites creating this garbage set for you. And why you are unwilling to acknowledge the equality of students--who only want you to help them communicate with more people on this chaotic planet.

[Alitas]

I teach Spanish to English speakers.

For the record my second-year students debated drug use, the immigrant experience and love this year (after watching "Maria, Llena Eres de Gracia"), wrote poetry (after a unit focusing on Jose Marti, Jaime Sabines, Pablo Neruda, Alfonsina Storni, Gabriela Mistral and and Ruben Dario), and right now they are learning how to fashion a short story that is character-driven ("Juan Cenizo", Julio Cortazar's "Casa Tomada" are what we are using for models).

I didn''t figure out 'til this semester that the book was really useless and all the grammar they needed to know could be taught through authentic text. As if sixteen year olds want to sit around talking about household chores and vacation time. My freshmen don't seem to mind these trite and useless units but anyone older than 14 pretty much hates the book.

I dabbled with authentic texts five years ago but this has been my most successful year in terms of student achievement. I can say I spend a heck of a lot more time assessing student work and doing my own lesson planning. It's been a lot of fun, actually.

Out of curiousity what are considered the norms for vocabulary retention when learning L2? First year, second year etc?

[Glenski]

[rickinbeijing]

I am delighted by the seriousness of purpose which nearly all the posters to this thread have exhibited. Thank you.

Let me respond to only a few observations for now in an effort to provoke further discussion:

I must concur with Glenski that it is very difficult to sustain an evolving dialogue with East Asian students at any level. The one exception I am obligated to note is when I taught analytical reading to a class of seven postgraduates at a key university in Beijing some years ago. However, I believe the unusually small class size and the fact that most of the students were themselves college faculty generated a lively discussion. Much has been written in recent years about the "reticence" of East Asian EFL learners, some of it based almost entirely on anecdotal evidence rather than extensive qualitative research. This pattern generally holds true for both Western and, more recentlyk, Chinese commentators on this issue. For a different interpretation, please see Cheng Xiaoteng (2000)Asian students� reticence revisited. System, 28, 435-446 or Culture of learning and ELT in China. Teaching English in China, 23 (1), 46-49. A former colleague of mine, his views might be worth commenting on.

Much of the research literature suggests that the oral inclination of both Latino and Black cultures does indeed make it easier for the EFL teacher to engage in extended dialogue with students from those cultures. Chinese, of course, are hardly docile in more comfortable environs, but the concern for face, the lack of practice in dialogue in Chinese classrooms, and other factors work against a genuine exchange of ideas with EFL teachers.

Case in point: I can still recall an extended discussion I managed to have with second year undergraduate English majors at a key university on the cultural habits of Suyuan and June in Tan's short story "Two Kinds." While students were forthcoming at times, they still had to be prodded. At no time did a student initiate an exchange of new ideas or interpretations of the text. Full participation, in their view, meant actively listening (i.e. refraining from jiang hua) and occasionally responding, never asking questions or taking the discussion in a new direction.

Has anyone out there experienced a situation wherein Chinese students initiated or enhanced discussion over authentic literature with you or a Chinese colleague?

Finally, if you haven't read or joined a similar thread of mine on the China Forum-Job Related, please do so as it seems to have petered out.

[moonraven]

Glenski:

You wrote a few days ago that you were very happy with the situation in which you are teaching--yet I have yet to see ONE POSITIVE WORD from you about that situation. I have nothing but your behavior on this forum to go on, but here you disparage the culture in which you are living, and you complain that the EFL classes only prepare Japanese students to take exams. I repeat, you do not sound like a happy camper to me--and that attitude colors all the statements that you make in regard to other teachers' experiences.

You want statistics from me about the percentage of EFL teachers who have taken some kind of certificate program. If you are interested, why not conduct a poll on this forum? You will probably not get reliable results, as you will have no control over how many people answer your poll or how many do so truthfully, but you can see what happens.

I am not interested in a poll, as I trust statistics about as much as I trust the US government. (Sorry about the political intrusion, but it's very apt.) If you can generalize from your experience in Japan, I can certainly do so from my experience in Latin America--and here, the majority of folks whom I have supervised or have worked with--at least in the last 3 years-- have taken some kind of EFL certification course. Unfortunately, that course did not teach them how to relate to students in general, much less how to relate to students with whom they do not share a common first language, nor anything about cultural expectations, nor about students NOT being subhumans with open crania into which information is deposited, nor how to "teach" a language in a non-gimmicky way, etc. etc. etc. Their effectivity as EFL teachers, quite frankly, was not much more than if a person off the street had been dragged in to teach the language--in fact, it might very well have been less--as a person off the street would share a common first language with them, would understand what their language learning needs are--and would not treat them as if they were subhumans.

These EFL programs and certificates and all the other paraphernalia such as textbook series, pre-digested videos and tapes have become a cancer eating away at the heart and soul of learning. They are like any other capitalist multinational venture--means of eliminating plurality and of making money.

[Glenski]

moonraven,

[moonraven]

Glenski:

MOD EDIT

I suggested the poll if YOU wanted statistics. And I made that very clear.

I have indicated several times on this forum, including on this thread, that the method of Paulo Freire prepares teacher to have a dialog with students--in addition to the other things and etceteras which you found so redundant.

MOD EDIT