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Can you look for work in Taiwan on tourist visa?

 
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Can you look for work in Taiwan on tourist visa? Reply with quote

Hi folks

Waiting to hear from a High school for a job offer.

If they do not select me for the job, is it possible to just come to Taiwan on a tourist visa and look for work in Taiwan, and then do the paperwork in a neighboring country, or otherwise? Flying back to North America would not be an option.

A few questions:

1. How much do cheap hotels cost in Taiwanese cities? Is it possible to find hotels or guest houses which cost around $10 - $12 per night or less?

2. Is it possible to rent a place on a monthly basis while looking for work?

3. Which cities do you recommend for work in Taiwan? Taipei might be too big and polluted for my liking.

4. In general, do you think it is better to accept a job online (through Dave's) or to come over to Taiwan and look for work there?

My credentials include: B.A., B.Ed., Teacher Certified, M.A., Post Graduate Certificate in T.E.S.L.

Please note, my degrees include a B.Ed. and Certified Teacher Credentials.

Thanks for the feedback, as it is stressful to decide what to do.
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timmyjames1976



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I have been researching the same questions that you have. As far as the visa thing goes, I think that is what most people do. You really shouldn't sign a contract when you are not in the country, so you will need to be there in order to sign. To get in you will need to do the tourist visa route (from what I understand).

Most people on here would say that you should be in Taiwan to find a good job in Taiwan. Again, I am a newbie so I have to take their word.

As far as hostels/hotels go you can look on several sites and compare. I have a link on my site to HostelWorld. You can check out prices and whatnot through them.
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you look for work in Taiwan on tourist visa? Reply with quote

ghost wrote:
Can you look for work in Taiwan on tourist visa?


In my humble opinion, the answer to this is yes, but just don't do it openly.

The fact is that when applying for a visitors visa to come to Taiwan, I don't believe that there is a category specifically for the purposes of what many foreigners want i.e. checking out the work situation. If there was then maybe we could tick that and be totally above board. In the absence of such a choice, then applying for a visitors visa for the purposes of tourism is your next best bet.

Provided that you don't actually work under that visitors visa for the purposes of tourism then you should be okay. Use the visa for the purposes it was intended for and you should have no problems. Travel around Taiwan a bit and check out the areas that you think are possibilities. Visit a few schools and let them know that you are looking for work. If any happen to have positions available then make your application for a resident visa for work purposes.

The fact that the system enables you to change a visitors visa for travel purposes into a resident visa for work purposes without the need to leave the country, seems to suggest that the above procedure is acknowledged by the authorities here and is considered acceptable.

Most importantly the above enables you the teacher to determine whether or not a certain position, school, and city are suitable for you. This is in everyones best interests as it helps to ensure a trouble free stay.

ghost wrote:
4. In general, do you think it is better to accept a job online (through Dave's) or to come over to Taiwan and look for work there?


I woudl recommend applying for jobs online and setting up interviews for after you arrive. Nothing more firm than this though as you don't want committments. Once you get here, you can interview with those schools and make a choice of where you want to work.
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Aristotle



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you should but no, you can't.
Don't ask why that answer makes any sense because it doesn't but neither do the Taiwan government regulations pertaining to working on Taiwan.
The vast majority of people who come to Taiwan to work, come in on a tourist visa. The exception being the migrant workers.
Yes, it is illegal but it is just about the only realistic way to get an ARC as a " Dirty Foreigner" on Taiwan. Even the foreign Ambassadors and directors of national representative offices are forced to get their ARC's in this manner because of Taiwan government prejudice, racism, incompetence and corruption.
The ill-reputed Ministry of Education (MOE) on Taiwan employs foreign teachers in public schools with a tourist visa.
The local "Council of Labor Affairs" (CLA) in charge of issuing ARC's to foreign nationals will not give the "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" (MOFA) the authority to issue ARC's to people outside of Taiwan. The migrant labor industry on Taiwan has shown that issuing ARC's is a very lucrative business.
If you get caught working on a tourist visa it is entirely up to the officer in charge of your case to determine if you are legal or illegal based on that officers personal interpretation of the law in that particular instance. There is no judicial oversight in cases of this nature and the officers in charge are free to ignore or uphold the regulations and laws as they see fit on that particular day.
Welcome to Taiwan.
A.
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aristotle wrote:
The vast majority of people who come to Taiwan to work, come in on a tourist visa. The exception being the migrant workers.
Yes, it is illegal but it is just about the only realistic way to get an ARC as a " Dirty Foreigner" on Taiwan.


I agree that most come in on visitors visas for the purposes of tourism, but I disagree that it is illegal. The fact is that until you have signed a contract you are really nothing more than a tourist here visiting the island. Once the contract is signed your application can be made for a work permit, and since the CLA took over processing of work permits, foreigners are now permitted to work during the processing period. This is evident by the fact that the CLA backdates applications to the date that they were made, not the date that they are approved. This is different from when the MOE was handling things.

As I mentioned there isn't a category that fits the purpose for many of us and therefore it is far easier to tick 'tourism' rather than to tick any other box and have to explain things.

Aristotle wrote:
Even the foreign Ambassadors and directors of national representative offices are forced to get their ARC's in this manner because of Taiwan government prejudice, racism, incompetence and corruption.


In a round-a-bout way this seems to suggest that Taiwan is out of step with other countries. Arsitotle, are you suggesting that other countries have a visa application category of 'looking for work'. Please provide links if this is indeed what you are suggesting.

Aristotle wrote:
The ill-reputed Ministry of Education (MOE) on Taiwan employs foreign teachers in public schools with a tourist visa.


This is incorrect.

The MOE only employs foreign teachers under a specific program under which these teachers are totally legal.

Individual schools may take it upon themselves to employ foreigners illegally, but this is the schools actions, not those of the central department. There is so much information out there about this, that I would have very little sympathy for any foreigner caught and deported for working illegally at an elementary or high school.

Aristotle wrote:
The local "Council of Labor Affairs" (CLA) in charge of issuing ARC's to foreign nationals will not give the "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" (MOFA) the authority to issue ARC's to people outside of Taiwan.


Aristotle please get your facts straight before posting. You are presenting yourself here as some sort of authority and a representative of your SSET, but you should at least post accurate information.

Firstly, neither the MOE nor the CLA have anything to do with the issuance of ARC's. Nor have they ever had any involvement in this. The Foreign Affairs Police (FAP) issue the ARC.

The CLA has always been the sole department responsible for the issuance of work permits for foreign teachers. Up until a couple of years ago, the MOE accepted applications and then passed these onto the CLA for approval. Now the CLA do this directly, which has streamlined the process considerably.

Aristotle wrote:
If you get caught working on a tourist visa it is entirely up to the officer in charge of your case to determine if you are legal or illegal based on that officers personal interpretation of the law in that particular instance. There is no judicial oversight in cases of this nature and the officers in charge are free to ignore or uphold the regulations and laws as they see fit on that particular day.


The regulations very clearly state this to be a deportable offence, and I am pretty sure that in most cases individuals caught working illegally on tourist visas would in fact be deported. There may be some extenuating circumstances that may enable someone to avoid deportation such as those who have an application pending for a work permit, and those that could prove that they were working illegally unknowingly. The rest would likely be deported, just as they should be.
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puiwaihin



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is absolutely legal to come and look for work. It is even legal to sign a contract with a school (unlike in Hong Kong where entering into a work agreement is illegal). The question is really whether or not it is legal to work while waiting for your work permit to be processed. That's the grey area.

But while working while waiting for the permit is not clearly legal, it is standard practice by the government. Just keep your head down and nose clean during this period so not to force someone to interpret a law.
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clark.w.griswald



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

puiwaihin wrote:
The question is really whether or not it is legal to work while waiting for your work permit to be processed. That's the grey area.


I doubt that government would ever come out and give a clear answer about this.

In the past it was clearly not allowed for teachers to begin working before the work permit had been obtained.

As I mentioned above, the CLA now backdates the work permit to the time that it was received. This seems to me to acknowledge that this is when the teacher actually started working. This is different from the previous system where the MOE dated the work permit as starting once it had been approved, meaning that anyone who worked prior to the work permit approval was working without a work permit.

Although you couldn't take it to court, I have it on good authority that teachers are permitted to work provided that they meet the governments requirements for employment and the application for the work permit has been received.

I have direct knowledge of at least one case where a teacher was caught working during the application period. No action was taken however a reinspection was undertaken a month later to check up on the situation. The inspector made it clear on the first visit that he would be back for a second visit to confirm the posession of a an ARC.
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matchstick_man



Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 244
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can but a 60 day tourist visa would be better as once you've found a job you may not have to leave the island. It also gives you more time to shop around for the job that is right for you.
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