Job Discussion Forums

lyla · Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 17

Not having a degree, I know I am limited to countries that do not require them by their government. However, I have been working in the *real world* for the last 11 years in management and accounting, plus volunteering in an ESL classroom and I intend to get a tesl certificate. Does this kind of professional experience help with getting a decent paying job if you do not have a degree?

Doglover · Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 305 Location: Kansai

tedkarma · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:31 am Post subject:

I don't know anyone who works in the "unreal" world. But it sounds fun!

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Doglover · Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 305 Location: Kansai

Not having an accounting degree, I know I am limited to countries that do not require accounting degrees by their government. However, I have been working in the *unreal world* for the last 18 years in teaching ESL, plus volunteering doing my household accounts and I intend to get a certificate. Does this kind of professional experience teaching ESL help with getting a decent paying accounting job if you do not have the required qualifications?

Can I get a job with Arthur Andersen though I have no relevant experience or training in accounting? I really love accounting though I have never studied it at university.

Celeste · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 7:04 am Post subject:

If you do have business experience, you may at some later date find your niche teaching English for Specific Purposes (ESP) or business English. When you are just starting out in EFL, the most important experience will be classroom experience. Do your TEFL certificate. Make sure that it is one that has a practicum so that you can get some classroom experience. You are probably qualified to teach in China and also Taiwan. Good luck. Welcome to the surreal world Wink

Doglover · Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 305 Location: Kansai

Babala · Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 1303 Location: Henan

China now requires a degree to teach legally. To the OP, unless your work experience has to do with teaching English, it pretty much means nothing.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

You guys are cruel. This is the newbie form.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Don't despair completely. For entry-level jobs in countries where you aren't required to have a degree, 'real-world' business experience CAN help you at interviews. Imagine a director of studies confronting a 22-year-old with a new BA and a new certification, as versus a 30-something with professional experience and a the same new certification. I'd guess that, assuming the laws of the country don't require a degree, the older, more experienced candidate could very well have a head start in terms of appearing to be professional and reliable. Might also relate better to businesspeople taking courses.
However, without the initial degree, it's tough to get beyond entry-level positions in most places.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 10:11 pm Post subject:

Most of Latin America either has no degree requirement, or has one that it�s easy to get around. Your real world experience might not be too much help, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. And there is an awful lot of business English to be taught around here.

Justin

PS- Given that the guy is hoping to join us, I don't see any reason to think that the "real world" comment was derrogatory. I am enjoying the unreal world of TEFL quite a lot, and there's no reason to scare the newbie...

Doglover · Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 305 Location: Kansai

lyla · Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 17

I think most of you misunderstood me about the "real world" comment. I was comparing the benefits of "working" experience in general to the benefits of having a degree(in anything) for countries that do *not* require degrees for a working visa. I did not at all mean that TESL is "unreal". I am passionate about teaching English, teaching is the only thing I've found that I love to do for the rest of my life, and I am planning to leave everything that is my life up until now to go overseas to teach English as a career. I myself had been in school for 2 years and received a college diploma. But having gained experience outside of my studies, I feel I have developed some skills that esl employers might find beneficial and that might give me a good chance of getting a job over someone fresh out of university. (I'll stress again - for jobs in countries that do not require degrees for the working visa) I'm talking about skills like the ability to communicate efficiently with parents(if you're teaching children), or how to handle difficult or upset parents. Or the ability to understand (if you are working at a private school) that the school needs to make money in order to stay in business, and that you need to represent yourself in a professional manner inside and outside the classroom because it reflects the reputation of the school. I became experienced in areas like these to a great extent through my job because your are actually dealing with customers, just as the students in the esl classroom are customers. Or the parents of the children in the esl classroom are customers.

I am pretty disappointed to read the lack of support that many repliers of this thread gave. I feel that trying to discuss and understand the topic like adults would be more productive. I have been coming to this website for your support, yet I get replies that are hurtful. I don't think you understand how these comments can have such a negative effect on someone who is trying their best to become ESL teacher. I really appreciate those who provided encouragement in this thread. And for those who misunderstood my "real world" comment I truly apologize for offending you.

Cdaniels · Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 3:21 am Post subject: but...decent paying job?

On one hand, I think its actually good for the discussion board to be kinda tough because plenty of programs (and schools) will give you pure cheerleading BS. Teaching can be tough and living overseas is very challenging (I can only imagine what teaching overseas is like at this point) A few frank comments might be a little discouraging, but the experiences of some people teaching overseas is VERY discouraging. It pays to develop a thick skin if you're determined to go. What gives me pause, however, is your qualifier "decent" pay. If you're determined, there's no reason a lack of degree should stop you, but if the paycheck is overriding concern, then it seems to me that there is reason to pause. Without certain qualifications or good connections, it will be difficult to get much more than subsistance pay. If teaching is your passion, there are plenty of opportunities to teach ESL in the USA. (I assume you're a US resident)