Job Discussion Forums

[Netminder]

Dear All,

I have been reading your posts with great interest, as I too have passed the first two interviews and am currently awaiting the telephone interview with a local HK principal. I was told to expect the phonecall in mid-May, about a week's time.

A few questions I have for currrent NET teachers:

1. From what I've read on this message board, I shouldn't be in a rush to accept the first offer via the telephone interview, as conditions vary so widely between schools- is this the case?

2. A person who claims to have lived in HK for 11 years told me that NET teachers often work 12-hours days due to the very heavy admin. work; I'm not afraid of marking tests or giving student journal feedback, but it did seem a bit excessive. What is your experience?

3. The U of HK has a part-time MA in Applied Linguistics, and my contact tells me that several NET teachers are often in the student population. Has anyone on this board any advice?

4. I'm told that there are "bands" of student groupings, 1 being the highest academic achievers, 3 being the lowest. The person who told me this said that the teachers stuck doing 3rd band schools suffer hostile students and low job satisfaction. I tend to dismiss this as paranoid teacher syndrome, but any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

[once again]

Hours worked can well run into twelve, and the banding is very real. Students in band 3 schools could well be very challenging to teach and with no real interest in learning from you. There used to be five bandings, with band five students being the least cooperative or the least able. They changed it to three in order to remove some of the stigma from the lower bandings. So now band three is the worst. Go figure on the logic of that.
Unfortunately, it is not teacher paranoia about the bandings.

On the other hand, I have met and taught many great students in band 3 schools and many really bad students in band 1. On balance though...band 1 would be much easier...

[well-travelled]

Netminder -

I assume you're a secondary NET rather than a primary NET. May I ask when you were told that you would be receiving a phonecall in mid-May. Was that straight from EMB or did you have to provoke them into giving you a response? Please reply to me privately if you wish.

To answer your questions ( and all answers to such questions are, of course, personally biassed):

1. No. you don't have to accept the first offer. But it all seems to be a bit of a lottery and I'm not exactly sure how it works anymore. You probably have to be careful not to burn your bridges... Best not to say 'NO' until you can help it...!!!

2. Workload. This is totally variable from school to school. The 12-hours day thing has emerged over the last four years. Part of the less-pay, more-work syndrome. Personally - and I've known HK for a long time - I think teachers (locals as well as NETs) are being abused under the current system - but, of course, that's only if they allow themselves to be abused.

This is a very complex issue, but - bottom-line - anyone who is working 12-hour days on a regular basis doesn't have a life as far as I'm concerned. I probably do a 9-hour day on average - with some marking at the weekends now and then. One point that no one seems to raise much is that: Are all these additional hours having any real effect, or are they just part of a show giving the illusion of such?

Of course, you're not here yet - but you may find the question pertinent once you've been in the system for a while.

4. Students and banding. Once Again explained it as it is. I guess that basically it depends on the school setup, vision of the principal, effective discipline etc.. But - bottom-line- if you're given a choice beween an all-girls. Band 1 EMI (English as the medium of instruction) school and a mixed Band 3 CMI (Chinese as the medium of instruction) school out in Tin Shui Wai then you'd be a fool to accept the latter and not the former. The thing is, of course, it doesn't usually work that way and you won't really know (unless you have contacts) where the school is at until you actually get there.

Most schools are, of course, neither one extreme or the other. But, as a sweeping generalisation, the English-level of the majority of students in HK has fallen since the introduction of CMI to most schools in the late 1990's. The NET's job is, in most cases, not a particularly easy one.


well-travelled

[Netminder]

Thank-you both for your frank, up-front replies- much appreciated.

To answer your question, the content of the emailed reply from HK was (and I quote)

"We may start forwarding the potential candidates' files to different schools for further consideration in the Middle of May, depending on the qualification assessment result and reference checking."

Now that I look at it again, it probably means that telephone interviews will probably start in early June. If the civil service is anything like it is in other Chinese countries, I imagine that there is a number of redundant gov't levels that need to process and stamp the various applications, needlessly drawing out the whole ordeal.

I've been an ESL teacher for quite some time now, and lived in a few countries in Europe, Asia and the Middle East; I've been through HK a few times and found it to be somewhat of an Oasis with regard to services and infrastructure (compared to Seoul, Taipei and Bangkok). Anyway, thanks for the insight on the banding and its relevance.

Sean

[well-travelled]

Sean -

I wish you the best of luck. There are, indeed, many positive things about living & teaching in Hong Kong. Right now, I guess you just have to be patient.

However, i think it needs to be said that the current recuitment process for new NETs is a total, total disgrace. And my repetition of the word 'total' is not a mistake.

EMB act like they were an agency in some third world, banana republic. Totally disgusting!! The fact that they state they "may" (?????) start "forwarding potential candidates' files to different schools in the middle of May, depending on the qualification assessment and reference checking" is, to my mind, beyond belief.

The cut-off date for applications for NET positions for the 2005/2006 school year was, I believe in January 2005. Most interviews were conducted in March. Candidates who attended those interviews will have been told whether or not they passed the interview in early April. Being told that you have passed the interview is, in most places in the world, an indication that you are going to get a definite job offer. Not in HK! In HK they tell you that your qualifications are now being assessed!!! I mean what the f**k have the minions in EMB been doing since you first put in your application in January??

And, let's face it, as Sean says, you're talking about early June before you're going to get a definite offer. And how many teachers, unless they're free spirits or desperate, are going to be hanging out in the ether until June.

EMB must lose scores of good people each year because of the tardiness of their recruitment process.

To be honest, it's been like this for a couple of decades - even well before the current NET scheme. But you'd have thought by now that they might have realised something was amiss......

F**king unbelievable!!!!

well-travelled

[Zero Hero]

When I was a NET I found the system to be fine. Certainly no one forces anyone to put up with it. You can always go and work on the Mainland where paperwork and qualifications are not checked.

[well-travelled]

I wasn't bemoaning the fact that qualifications are verified etc.. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am critical of the time-scale involved in that process. And I maintain - and I know I'm not alone here - that the fact that offers are not made until June for a jobs starting in August is a disgrace.

well-travelled

[islanddreamer]

I applied for a primary NET position in November 2002, had an interview in March, then heard nothing until July when I had a phonecall from a school in the middle of the night and had another 'interview'. Then I finally received an email at the beginning of August from yet another school and had to answer some interview-style questions again. They then asked me how quickly I could get to HK as term started on 1 September! Now that is pretty skewed.

[well-travelled]

Islanddreamer

Yes, and "skewed" is a polite way of putting it. But such cases are not unprecedented.

As a matter of interest, did you accept the post in the end?

well-travelled

[Scott in Incheon]

When I started in 1998 as a NET, I got my offer near the end of July for a middle of August start. It was quite a challenge to get everything in order before I came over. I even had to change the name in my passport as it didn't match my name on my degrees...(I use my full name on my degrees but not in my passport).

Still, I spent six years as a NET and really enjoyed the experience except for the last year when I got saddles with all remedial classes. Never pissed off your panel head....

[Zero Hero]

But you all seem to overlook the fact that, unfortunately, the schools themselves often don't know their own enrolment figures till that time. Given this fact, and the sheer number of applications, I think the EMB arranges things very rapidly indeed.

The system is not made for your convenience nor does it revolve around you. To describe it as "disgusting" simply because you are inconvenienced is somewhat peculiar.

Personally, I think this type of initial hurdle is a good test for a candidate's suitability for living and working in Hong Kong. If they throw their rattle out of their pram over such a trivial matter as this (and begin to describe things as' disgusting') it is clear that, ultimately, they are most likely not suited to the SAR.

[ChrisRose]

To Scot,
also don't sleep with your panel head or supervisor. No matter how slutty they are

[well-travelled]

I am not personally inconvenienced- I'm already working in HK as I thought would have been clear from my initial response to Netminder's enquiry.

I just don't see how, given the abundant evidence to the contrary, that you can find EMB's recruitment practices anything other than lacking in professionalism. Islanddreamer & Scott give two examples indicative of this, and these are by no means unrepresentative. At the very least, they indicate a lack of consideration on EMB's part for the people they are trying to hire. But you seem to indicate that this is unimportant - is indeed part of the process to seperate the men from the boys, so to speak. Not a view I have much sympathy with ...

There is also a matter of pragmatics. I wrote above that EMB must lose scores of good people each year because of the tardiness of their recruitment process. EMB is having problems recruiting enough teachers, particularly for the Primary NET scheme. There are a number of reasons for this (although I don't see that enrollment figures have anything to do with it) but one reason is the fact that the countries that NETs are recruited from have strictly defined times for teachers to hand in their resignations. In the UK, the deadline is some time in April. Many teachers have family and financial commitments and are unwilling to give up their posts without the firm offer of another job on the table. Late night telephone calls in June (or later in some cases) are not the way to get such prospective NETs on board.

well-travelled

[islanddreamer]

well travelled - yes, I'm here in Hong Kong, just completing my first contract as a PNET.

Actually contracting a NET has nothing to do with school enrolment numbers. It's to do with how quickly the EMB passes potential candidate CVs to the individual schools, and how quickly the schools choose a NET from those CVs. Neither the EMB nor the schools realise that they are putting their candidates in a difficult position by shoving them in a drawer to be dealt with later. Luckily I was planning to leave the country anyway so I had already finalised a lot of my stuff - otherwise I would never have come to HK on such short notice.

[Zero Hero]