Job Discussion Forums

[scroiner]

HI. sorry if this post is stupid but hey.
I have applied to do a CELTA course over here in England, starting next month, but I was hoping to get to work in Spain at some point in the near future. Am I making things a whole lot harder for myself by not waiting and applying for the EBC course when i go to Spain, as they seem to make the process of getting work and moving around a whole lot easier.
any imput greatly appreciated!

[Moore]

If you�ve got working papers then it�s easy to get work here. The hard part is getting by on the crappy wages. When you say the near future, I�d avoid heading down here until Spetember, because in summer work here is thin on the ground/non-existent. Do some summer camp work in the UK, then come down in Autumn.

[kathy brennan]

I teach in Madrid and reading the posts about work and finding good rates, etc, etc, all I can say is I do agree that EU citizens will find it easier to interview with many "academias" looking for teachers.

Whether they get the work they want, or whether they get good wages, is a totally different story. You see the pay scales change because of the taxes the academias have to pay, but those extra euros are not paid to you. They are paid to the Spanish goverrnment in terms of SS payments, either as an autonomo (self employed) or with a contract. To be more specific if the "academia" agrees to pay you 14 euros an hour, if you were EU, then they will have to pay 2 or 3 euros more on top of that 14 euros but as I said you get 14 euros net an hour and they pay the 2 or 3 euros to the govt. So its still 14 (or whatever figure) euros they agreed with you at interview time.

How long you have worked for the "academia" or the amount you have contributed, will determine if you will be eligible for the "paro" /(unemployment benefits) should you decide to collect , which some eligible teachers look into in certain months.

So again, the only reason I decided to post is to share my experiences with future teachers coming to Madrid. From what I saw and what we�ve been sharing (yes, we do compare notes, EU and non EU�s!!), the hourly rates are pretty much the same for EU or non EU.

The "academias" dictate the rates and they sort of decide on the spot, during interview time. Depends on who is interviewing I guess. This goes without saying they also dictate if they want to offer you hours or not. So really there is teaching work for everyone, but as in any sector, the interview decides if you�re what the employer wants.

Of course EU�s can get a contract but again as most EFL teachers do this for a year, a year and a half, the long term Social Security contributions and benefits, etc, etc., looking into what the Spanish/EU state system will give you when you hit 65 seems a bit out of perspecticve especially when you�re 23/24 and all you want to do is see the world. Again if you�re a planner and you�d like to look into age 65, Social security and all that, by all means go ahead! It all boils down to what you want and feel is important at the moment!

So whether you�re EU or non-EU, my point is find out what you want from this EFL career, if you want to do a sabbatical of a year/ year and a half, if you want this on a long term basis, etc, and I guess decide from there.

There are schools that pay well, I�ve seen some threads talking about this, so find them and see what they have to offer.

On teachers wages you will not live like a king/queen, veeery far from that but then if I wanted to do that, then I can always get that City job (London), or maybe work in Wall Street (not the language multimedia school in Spain!!), I meant Wall Street in Manhattan! Suerte y hasta pronto.

[Spainish]

As long as you are certified (CELTA or TEFL) you should have no problem finding work. There are many newspapers, magazines and websites where academies advertise their job opportunities, or you could simply do a mass emailing of your CV to various academies in Madrid (a friend of mine who did the EBC course said that was pretty much what they did, I don't know how extensive their academy list is, but it seems to work).

As far as Madrid paying crappy wages, well I disagree. Of course there are places out there that pay you "peanuts" but there are certainly others that pay very well (granted they will expect some teaching experience on top of certification). Apart from being certified if you have working papers you are definitely more likely to find a good paying job.

You could also always just find your own clients and charge them whatever you feel like (within reason of course )!!!


Spainish

[JimRoss]

I agree with Spainish regarding finding work and pay in Madrid as there are good paying schools out there.

We know that as well as confirmed by graduates who touchbase with us about good schools to go for, an invaluable input to us at EBC.

The EBC job assistance program is a bit more sophisticated than just a mass mailing. At the end of it, yes we do get graduate CVs out to 121 EFL schools in Madrid via email because it is simply the fastest and most reliable way to do it.

However, we are on first name terms with the DOS (Director of Studies) in most of the schools on the list. If we ever receive serious complaints from our graduates about schools, we take them off our list. What all this means is that our list contains schools that we know something about and have not been complained about by previous students.

When we first started we had about 40 schools on the list. Since then, the list has grown, mainly because schools have called us and asked to be added o to the list. We have also added schools that have been personally recommended by previous graduates.

In addition we also provide one-on-one help for special requirements or extra advice when looking for work.

Regards,

Jim Ross,
TEFL Centre Coordinator,
EBC Servicios Linguisticos.

Madrid Contact:
Phone:(+34) 91 555 3975
Fax: (+34) 91 345 0843
Buenos Aires Contact:
Phone (+5411) 4371 3149
UK free phone Contact:
Phone: 0800 8456 719
Fax: 0800 8456 819
US/Canada toll free Contact:
Phone: 1 888 393 4015
Fax: 1 888 393 4050
Mailing address Spain:
Orense 26, 2A, 28020 Madrid, Spain.
Mailing address Argentina:
Cordoba 1318, 6th Floor, 1055 Capital Fed, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Web: http://www.ebc-tefl-course.com

[Moore]

The hourly wages in Madrid are ok on paper: 15 an hour average in-company, and 12 an hour average in academies (please correct me if I�m wrong).

My point about crappy wages was what happens in summers: it�s very rare to be given a salary over summer - what are teachers supposed to do then? There is virtually no work here over summer, apart from a couple of hellish summer camp in the boonies. A good few schools have proudly offered me a "ten month contract" - what on earth is the use of that? Teachers are left to scrabble around going to the UK to do summer camp (assuming they�ve got EU papers) or working in bars on the Costas, or going back to wherever they came from: great if you�re here for a good time and not a long time, but some of us live here.

And I�m sorry, but a business english teacher with a full schedule (20 hours a week is all you�ll get as Spanish workers can only learn before work (usally 8am - 9:30 am), then lunchtime (2-4 pm) then after work (6-8 pm) and very rarely want lessons on Fridays, then with cancellations (common) and public holidays (there�s almost never a full month here) then you will be VERY lucky to make 1250 euros a month (you may go over this slightly on the odd month, but you will definitely go way lower others) . Remember, this implies starting work at 8 am, then having a long and rather useless gap (you�re very often in the middle of nowhere), then another 2 hours, then another gap, then an 8 o�clock finish - that�s 12 hours, plus you�ve got to get up and spend tons of dead hours on the metro. Academy workers have a much more civilised time, usually doing a four hour block (for 12 an hour) to which they can add lunchtime business classes, and they end up with about the same money, altough the actual teaching is tougher, involving lots of kids and teenagers.

This money may look ok to Americans with the exchange rate difference, but prices are still in euros here. Everybody I know who has come here has racked up hefty credit card bills: when you�re looking for work, building up your schedule, when you�re phoning for flats, when you�re putting a few bits in your flat, when you need to go home very occasionally, when you buy Christmas presents, when you need to buy clothes, the money you�ll get just cover living here will cover your expenses an a modest social life, but not much else, and when you factor in summer you will get into debt. I�m a teacher with ten years experience, I�ve been here for two years now, I got through 10,000 euros in savings plus my wages and have had a really rather modest lifestyle. I�ve only just stabilised financially, by dint of having found another, non-teaching related income, but that�s after two years. I have a wide group of friends who all agree that this place is very very tough financially as an English teacher (and as such I have low expectations already).

If all you want is ten months of fun in Spain getting a bit of teaching experience, then fine, but accept this: you WILL hit your credit card and anyone who says otherwise is only kidding you and themselves.

[Victoria Morley]

I�m EU (Brit) and I like what you said, kathy, it all boils down to priorities, this has been my line when I started looking into the whole EFL career because at the end of the day you decide what you want from this whole thing. A sabbatical of a year, maybe less, or maybe even stay permanently.

With regards to pay, the pay scales mentioned on these posts I believe are quite accurate, between 14-18 euros an hour from language centres, doing company in house classes.

Yes, you are correct about the Social security payments, I am on a contract and I see the social security contributions on my "nomina" but that goes straight to the tax man and I get the net hourly rate quoted at interview time. I average between 14-18 euros an hour net.

Depending if you�re on contract or if you�re not, language centres have their own policies. As a norm, you get paid for classes given and there is no pay for bank holidays, so if your class falls on a bank holiday, no pay. Having said that , they have what they call "recuperaciones" where the student/s will arrange another day to make up for the classes that fell on the bank holiday, so you end up being able to do the full lot for that month.

From my experience, they can be flexible with this, it is when you start having private clients that you have to be on your guard. They will tend to pay higher as you cut out the language centre (the middleman) but should they decide not to pay, it will be almost impossible to collect, and that�s for EU or non-EU nationals. To start I would work thru language centres, learn the business, then later on, say in 6 months time or whatever time you feel is adequate start accepting private clients.

I�ve been able to clear 1200 euros a month, especially when I was given intensive courses , there are ways to add up the money each month but like in anything you have to work harder to earn more. Of course I�d like to earn more, but again I could hit the City again (I was there!) , but then I know I�ll be missing the independence teaching brings, the long holidays, something I will have to give up once I re-join the 9-6 City race, with the higher pay and all the perks it brings.

This whole EFL career will by all means bring us different experiences, good, bad, indifferent, but I guess that�s part of the whole process of living away from home.

For the moment I�ll stick to my teacher�s wages, enjoy life, have fun , improve my Spanish, travel some more, etc. etc. etc. �Suerte a todos y hasta luego!


All the best,


Victoria

[Meg4]

Excellent post, Moore. I've been teaching "business english" in Madrid for almost 3 years now, and I totally agree with everything Moore has said. It's a very accurate picture of what life is like as an English teacher in Madrid. Madrid is great for people who just want to take a break from their "real" lives to learn Spanish, travel, and have fun for a year. However, for people who are serious about teaching and want to stay in Spain permanently, it gets challenging.

As far as the original question about whether you can get work without going to EBC the answer is yes. EBC definitely isn't a requirement for getting a job in Madrid. The important thing is to have some kind of certification (experience also helps), and to come at the right time of year. In fact, if you're taking a CELTA course you will actually have an advantage over EBC people for some jobs--I know of several academies / agencies here that only accept CELTA qualifications.

[Victoria Morley]

I think we all have our points, but at the end of the day, what should be clearly stated is the fact that one does not have to go through a particular TEFL school to get a job in Madrid. You can go out there and do your own job search BUT you stand a better chance of finding good jobs if you have a TEFL certificate. I know some teachers who are not TEFL certified and they�ve been teaching in Madrid for more than 5 years! As they said they learned on the job, whatever that means.

As has been stated in different posts, there are jobs, BUT the rates vary and for some of us the pay rates are just too low. I was offered 10 euros an hour by one school! Just a wee too low to live on.

Of course it is a given that EU�s will be called in for more interviews than the non-EU�s. But finding work and finding work that you want (classes that are not in "poligono industriales" in the boonies!!) are totally different matters.

Being Brit did not give me an advantage of knowing where to go, who to speak to, what are good rates, etc, etc. We all start out with the similar anxieties, doubts and questions, mainly relating to getting a job. When I started looking for a TEFL school I knew I had to ask a lot of questions especially those that related to job search support.

The support your TEFL school gives is very important when you�re starting out. What good is your TEFL certificate if you don�t even know where to start looking for a job?

International House in Madrid (CELTA) is notorious for giving their graduates very little job search help and sadly I speak from first hand experience.

When I was looking into TEFL schools from England, as for many Brits, CELTA was my first choice. As I was lucky enough to be able to come to Madrid and interview personally with the schools I short-listed, I made sure to ask lots of questions especially about job help.

I met with 5 TEFL schools, 2 CELTA�s, 1 Trinity and 2 TEFL Certificate.

At International House, Madrid (CELTA), I spoke with one of their tutors who basically told me this:

They can give me names and numbers of language schools I can contact for possible teaching jobs and they can also give me some advice. But that was basically it. She added though that being British and having a CELTA was enough to find work, which wasn�t at all reassuring because I wanted a clear explanation of how they would help me get a job, not �don�t worry be happy, because your British and have a CELTA�.

As I�d already been to one school who seemed to have a more extensive way of putting their graduates in contact with schools, I asked them if they had this type of job search help and she said no. I further added that if my CV was already with the prospective employers, then that would save time for all of us, the academies and the teachers. No go, so I went on my merry way to the next TEFL school on my short-list.

Of course I knew being Brit would be an advantage but I still wanted some clear explanation on how to go about a job search for teaching hours! I also ended up asking around, finally met other Brits who took the IH CELTA course in Madrid and they confirmed my fears , they had to look for jobs on their own, some even had to look in the yellow pages!

Of course we are all working but wouldn�t you want it the easy way? You being called in for interviews and you doing the sussing out? Not you ringing schools with no idea whatsoever who they are and wasting all that cash you brought on mobile phone calls?

I�m glad the job search help I got was excellent and really when you�re in Madrid for the first time, as a resident, with very little Spanish to boast of, you will want and need all the help you can get in looking for those teaching hours, EU or non EU!

Also as far academies favouring CELTA, I don�t know about that, the ones I know who might favour CELTA are more likely those ones who run their own CELTA programmes and have a language centre as well. However I�m not even sure about that because International House (CELTA) hired some of the people from the non-CELTA course that I took. After all is said and done, you can find a job with or without a TEFL certificate, especially if you�re EU, BUT do you want to work for low paying schools, or maybe schools that are not very well regarded in the EFL market?

The rest is history, I did not go with IH, and as I found out later on after my TEFL course, the language schools call and do they call! I had to switch off my mobile phone at one point and to this day I still get calls and I do not want any more hours, thank you very much!

So my point here is the TEFL school you choose must be there to help you start out. As I pointed out early on, we will all have our own experiences and I am glad for forums like this where the �newbies� are able to find information that will help them decide whether to TEFL or not to TEFL.

I know of good paying schools (Vaughan Systems, Interlang, Blue Language Consultants) to name a few who are known to pay well. I am definitely no authority on the what is the best way to address this whole EFL career, I merely want to point out what I�ve been through so far and as a whole it�s been one jolly good time. The Spanish people are friendly, helpful and very forgiving of my embarrassing Spanish language mistakes.

all the best,

victoria

[Moore]

All interesting thoughts. Just out of interest, and if I�m not being rude, how much do you earn (in a good month/ in a bad month/ in summer) and have you had to dig into your savings?

[Victoria Morley]

No, you�re not being rude, no problem, but I�d rather you pm�d me, if you don�t mind.

Cheers,

victoria

[Moore]

In fact it was only to know if the figures I had put forward were more or less correct and whether everyone else had to dip into personal savings/credit cards, as opposed to most other countries where you can save up a bit. One good thing about earning b*gger-all is a lower tax bill though!

[foss]

Moore,
Have you ever tried to secure company classes, bypassing the academies? I was once offered a few lucrative hours working directly for a company but I couldn't as I wasn't "aut�nomo".

[Moore]

Thanks for the suggestion Foss. In fact I quit being an autonomo becasue the paperwork was hell on a stick: the tax system here is a nightmare, and I�ve never had much of a head for form-filling, even in my own language!