Job Discussion Forums

[Babala]

My school has been looking for teachers for a month now. They hadn't had much luck finding qualified applicants. Finally they resorted to going through an agency. The way this agency works is that the school pays the agency the salary & housing allowance and the agency then pays the teacher it places and provides housing for them. I knew the teacher would be receiving less money then the other teachers, as the agency would take a fee out but...

She is getting less than half of the salary we are paid
We have private apartments in the city centre, within a 4 minute walk from the school
She has to share an apartment and take the bus to work as she is not close

The sad fact is that if she had gone directly through the school, she would have the same benefits as the rest of us. I am not saying that all agencies are bad but I would advise newbies especially to try and go directly through the school as you will get a better deal.

[mlomker]

[Babala]

Agreed, definately the FT had not done her research before coming so most of the blame must fall to her. Hopefully though this piece of advice will help out someone else.

[Chris_Crossley]

Does the FT have the means to quit in case she decides that she well and truly has been screwed (or maybe she already has decided this) and wants out? In the circumstances, I would quit unless I simply had nowhere to go and could not return home for lack of funds.

Hence, the moral of the story is: always have a contingency plan, and never dig yourself into a (proverbial) hole that you can't climb out of without your employers being the ones to provide the (proverbial) rope ladder.

[NateM]

A good resource worth checking out for contacting schools directly is www.findaschool.org . Has links to websites at hundreds of universities. Not all work, to be certain, and many don't have English websites. But it's a start.

http://www.findaschool.org/index.php?Country=China

[Babala]

Thought I would just give an update

We let the owner of the school know how much less the new teacher was getting from the agency he went to. He suggested to her to break the contract with the agency. This is the one time a teacher is lucky that the agency had violated the contract several times so she is able to get out of it.

Lesson to the newbies. Do your homework! Look at all the job posting and you will be able to get an idea of the average salaries people are paid for working ___ amount of classes.

[Queenslander]

Is anyone familiar with Angelina's Cafe? They are a recruiting agency and many of the schools and universities seem to advertise with them. Does anyone know how they are paid or how they get their cut?

[nolefan]

do not trust an agency that handles your salary. An agency's main job is to get you a job and provide the schools with a suitable teacher. The agency should also standby to help clear any misunderstandings that arise between the school and the employee.
Your salary should go directly to you.

As far as that teacher goes, they were happy when they signed the contract but now they want out because they're not getting as much as they could? give me a break!
As long as there is no violation on said contract, they should stick it out or do whatever it is that is required to get out of it.

[Babala]

Nolefan,
I agree with you. It was her fault she signed a bad contract. The contract she did sign with agency was violated. She was damn lucky it was otherwise she wouldn't have to been able to get out of it. My boss is great guy and he didn't want to see her get screwed. Your other advice about agencies/recruiters is also good. They just find you the job, they don't pay you your salary.

[Girl Scout]

If you're interested here is another site that will help FTs contact school directly.

http://www.chinatefl.com/indexe.asp

This is the site I was using while looking for a university job.

[Keath]

Actually, this type of arrangement is usually VERY dangerous for both the school and the teacher.

We are a program provider so we also make placements with schools and sometimes third party organizations. We do alot of research on these groups before we decide to cooperate with them.

One sinister organization in particular AITA - Australian International Trade Association run by Michael Guo, charges the school both an introduction fee, and at least 6 months salary up front. The school pays this to AITA.

CONSIDER THIS:

1. Many of the schools dont have the permissions to host foreign teachers. AITA requires that the passports of the teachers be mailed to Beijing for processing, then only to issue a 6 month F type Business Visa. AITA also does not have the ability to host foreign teachers so they cannot issue the Z type visa.

2. There are many problems when teachers arent paid, and the school wont be willing to help the foreign teacher if they have already paid + 30,000 RMB to a company like AITA. In this case, the teacher should attempt to resolve the issue through Beijing in a non-personal out of the loop kind of way which generally leads to little or no result.

3. As you already mentioned, the company usually pays far less than the standard salary.

4. Once AITA has got their money, they disappear. They are not interested to solve problems once they have their cash.

5. AITA requires the teacher to sign a contract directly with them with threatening language regarding keeping it confidential. They pray on newer folks who come to China and once arrived, they attempt to re-negotiate the contract with the teacher in a very exploitative way.

This is just one organization that I am aware of. In my opinion it is probably one of the most dangerous situations a new foreign teacher can find herself in.

Sorry to hear about your schools experience.
We would be happy to recommend a qualified teacher for your school.

We're based in the USA. Our China office charges a standard introduction fee to the schools usually 3500 for each teacher. But thats it, and they work with both the school and the teacher if there are any issues that cannot be resolved directly. we're as much or as little a part of the school/teachers experience as they want us to be.

Good luck!

Keith
www.Journeyeast.org
[email protected]

[Babala]

Keath,
I went to your website and your organization doesn't even require a degree, it said you would prefer qualified applicants but basically stated that anyone can get a job. You talked about how one must watch out that a school has the legal authority to hire foreign teachers (which is true) but how can your organization find legal jobs for all, when China requires a degree for a valid work visa and some of your applicants do not have them?

[Keath]

If the candidate is not already in China, we charge a higher price for non-degree candidates because of the difficulty in finding legal placement. The only problem with legal job placement we have had in 5 years was with the organization I mentioned in my previous post (AITA) They even sent us a fake document that claimed they were authorized by the Beijing Min of Education to host education programs.

We have a small team of individuals that research and physically visit the schools to ensure the quqality of lodging and profile the administration and proficiency of the Chinese English teachers who would otherwise be the teachers assistants.

Most teachers receive an invitation letter in advance and obtain the Z visa prior to coming to China. For those who do not receive the Z visa, the rules for converting visas vary by location in China so there is no easy way to answer that. Not sure what you meant by "Anyone can get a job." We wouldnt accept someone who didnt qualify or pass our evaluation process, once accepted we vouch for the teacher in the same respect we are accepting responsibility of the placement with the school for the teacher.

Regards,

Keith

[tofuman]

In my previous life, I did a lot of work for third party agencies. While I did get burned when I first started, eventually I hooked up with an agency that paid me reasonably well. They were still only paying me about one half of what they charged the hiring company. Even so, my hourly rate was significantly higher than that of the hiring companies regular employees. But there was a major downside in that I lacked typical employee protections and could be fired at will any time.

After reading about the Buckland group and JourneyEast, I have been thinking that an agency may be a good way to go. I located, negotiated, battled and am finishing up my second contract here. But the difficulties that I went through at times were demoralizing.

I was interested in teaching in a specialized field, so I knew what I was looking for and my choices were few. A bright eyed, idealistic, recent college grad, as well as others, might do well to consider an agency, if they treat their people with kindness and pay well.

Unless a person has a background in mental health, criminal justice, or a similar field, few are able to even conceive of, much less deal with, the indifference and psychological brutality that these people regularly utilize in their dealings with FTs.

The insincerity, hypocrisy, falsehood, and so forth only exist in places like a prison or mental hospital in the West.


Dealing with an agency, a good one, might save a lot of grief.

[Keath]

Tofuman-

Well said.. I never thought about it in that way before.. But you are 100 % correct. In fact, in the past 6 years, I have moved myself away from dealing with the schools directly and completely, we a Chinese staff that has been to America for training, they know our standards and negotiate with the schools on our Behalf according to their training.

Its much easier on the heart and head this way.. Let the Chinese to deal with the Chinese.. Its the best way..

Keith