Job Discussion Forums

[Roger]

It would be interesting to come up with a list of reasons why class sizes in China should be REDUCED.
I personally have my own reasons, but I have seldom heard any complaints from Chinese teachers about their class sizes.
If you observe a Chinese teacher's class you will perhaps get a little jealous: it's a lot less stressful to watch than many of our classes (judging by a spate of threads recently). The Chinese students seem to be perfect at doing what their teachers want to do on cue, repeating after them in chorus, doing homework on time etc. In fact, Chinese students excel at being organic tape-recorders: listen to them repeating after their Chinese English teacher, and you will feel humbled and downsized! No matter whether their class holds 50, 60 or 80 - they perform like a well-orchestrated team of actors and actresses.

On Saturday, the EDUCATION supplement to the SCMP carried a bomb titled "The 'billion dollar hoax'".

"International experts say smaller classes DON'T necessarily lead to higher standards".

Professor John HATTIE of the University of Auckland, having read over 300'000 research papers on this issue, had a damning opinion on smaller classes! His conclusion: from an ECONOMIC point of view, cutting classes doesn't MAKE SENSE! Students neither get smarter nor do they achieve higher scores.

Well, there were dissenting voices (but I cut them out as I want to solicit your own opinions on this). Note that the good professor didn't say "cutting classes makes no sense at all"; he inserted the adverb "not necessarily...".

Some participants at the conference offered success stories of smaller classes, but the kiwi professor dismissed them out of hand, saying that teachers running smaller classes had more freedom to exercise their own discretion of what to teach, and when, which could result in a WEAKER concept of PROGRESS across YEARS, and lower EXPECTATIONS.

He substantiated his own conclusion by referring to the persistently high scores of Hong Kong and mainland Chinese students at maths and sciences.

He added that for reduced class sizes to operate ideally teachers would have to change their teaching styles and methodologies.
But since this has not bee done yet in China (including Hong Kong), expecting improvements on the academic performance front is a moot point.
Anyway, the Hong Kong education authorities are planning on reducing classes mainly because of dramatically falling birth rates, and teachers are clamoring for their jobs to be kept. Currently, they have on average 40 students to one class.

[Babala]

I think it depends on what you are teaching. If I am giving a lecture, I couldn't care if there is 5, 50 or 150 students. If I am teaching oral English, then the smaller the class size is, the better.

When I attended university, my average class size in a lecture was about 200 students per class. It wouldn't have made a difference if it was smaller. The seminars however had about 20 students per class as the point of them was to test your subject knowledge and give you a chance to express your opinions. A small class size was needed to allow all students a chance to speak.

If you are referring to writing classes, business lectures and such, then I agree with large class sizes. If we are talking about oral English, the best class size is 10 students and under.

[tofuman]

"He added that for reduced class sizes to operate ideally teachers would have to change their teaching styles and methodologies."

True. Bad teaching can prevent effective learning regardless of class size.

I take the students that want help out of the classroom and spend time with them in small groups. After that is done, I take the better looking girls and do the same. That is about all I have time for. Students that I know really try I include as well and may even bump one of the pretty ones to give them a chance.

I found that using a tape recorder and letting the students hear themselves speak English better illustrates to them their problems than anything I could say.

And I enjoy spending time in small groups with pretty teenage girls.

[andrew_gz]

tofuman wrote, "And I enjoy spending time in small groups with pretty teenage girls."

We hardly knew ye!

[lily]

Hmm, almost makes one ashamed to be a Kiwi.

Have to agree with Babala - it depends on what is being taught.

What age group(s) are being discussed here?

Hattie may be right in saying that reducing class sizes here might not make that much of a difference to overall results, but they do have an absorb and regurgitate teaching method. How well would classes of 40+ go in Western countries where we are (theoretically) taught to think for ourselves and have more freedom in what our results can be? (You don't have to get, what, 90% or whatever just to go to Uni).

[Brian Caulfield]

I left South Korea because at the university where I taught I became to popular and had an enrolment of over 1000 . This was OK but I made the same as teachers with 300. I was popular because I worked hard at preparing the classes . I accessed the students at the begining and put them in groups of the same ability and gave each group work they could handle . I then had to curve the grades . It was a real headache at the end of each term If you want information about teaching large classes look at Penny Urr's work . She is the God when it comes to teaching English .