Job Discussion Forums

[younggeorge]

I agree with gnocchiman, VS: there's a book in there! It looks like you'd have a good start on it if you just copy-pasted everything you've written in this forum. Not just this thread, you're everywhere! So much good sense and balance, even if odd remarks touch nerves here and there - and that's what keeps the exchanges interesting and would make the book more than a set of cosy reminscences.

Looking forward to the next installment.

[veiledsentiments]

Unfortunately after the last one, I think I may never be able to type again... (expect that there are few that would be happy about that...) Now, I must get off this computer and actually do something useful - like laundry.

VS

[eslandflteacher]

[veiledsentiments]

What has happened is that we have two words here... one is harem (which in English speaking terms is used to refer to the male breeding stable) and the other is hareem - which is used to refer to that which is involved with the women of the family - one has strictly western sexual connotations - while the other doesn't. And that is why I spell them differently as they have become two different words. The word 'harem' is the one that is transliterated incorrectly followed by a complete distortion of meaning by the west. And as a matter of fact, I have often heard (and read) of the women's portion of the house or flat as the hareem. In the older flats, the back portion can usually be kept private from the public portion - allowing the women of the family to pass from the kitchen to the bedroom and the bath without passing through the majlis areas.

In the big fancy villas of the Gulf, the majlis is often a separate building or just a large from hall area.

It may be that the usage of the term 'hareem' may vary in different Arabic dialects or it may be an 'old-fashioned' term?

VS

[eslandflteacher]

VS Said:

What has happened is that we have two words here... one is harem (which in English speaking terms is used to refer to the male breeding stable) and the other is hareem - which is used to refer to that which is involved with the women of the family - one has strictly western sexual connotations - while the other doesn't. And that is why I spell them differently as they have become two different words.

Kenneth responds,

You are correct in discerning a difference in meaning between the original Arabic and the Anglicised (Europeaninsed/westernised) form of the word, "harem". As to the other word, 'hareem", well, it doesn't exist in English, obviously, and it is only a translitered form of the Arabic word. The purpose of this is to delimit a difference with the English word.
In other words, there is only one English word, "harem", which has nothing to do the original Arabic meaning, rather it has to do with European/Anglo conception of what the original word means. Thus, it refers to something entirely different--that being, the "seraglio", essentially, a private *beep*-house.

VS said:

And as a matter of fact, I have often heard (and read) of the women's portion of the house or flat as the hareem. In the older flats, the back portion can usually be kept private from the public portion - allowing the women of the family to pass from the kitchen to the bedroom and the bath without passing through the majlis areas.

Kenneth says,

Yes, you are correct that the word "hareem" (I, actually, prefer, "harim") refers to the private part of the home. The use of the word in this instance is a form of verbal "shorthand" to refer to the inner sanctum of the house/home compound. Simply, the intimation behind the word here is a reference to the private areas (as opposed to the majlis, which is public, and, therefore, the realm of the male--at least, in a traditional setting).

VS inquired"

It may be that the usage of the term 'hareem' may vary in different Arabic dialects or it may be an 'old-fashioned' term?

Kenneth says,

No, the meaning does not vary in accordance with dialects. The concept is very constant. And, no, it is not so much "old-fasioned" as it is simply a reference to the women folk of family.

Kenneth

[turtlepi1]

Harem?
Hareem?
Harim?
Haram?

How am I ever going to learn arabic?

[veiledsentiments]

Fun, huh?

the only one that you really need to worry about is 'haram' Figuring out that one is a challenge in itself.

VS

[rickit]

Usool,

I would like to hear from your wife, actually.

Why don't you see if she wants to post some of her own comments on the subject?

--R