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Outsourcing of University classes to ECC (one man's story)
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julieoapw



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my company did not - the regular staff taught the credited classes as usual. I did not take anyone else's job. Ours was an extra conversation class. It's hard for the students to get much chance to practice orally in a class of 45.
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JimDunlop2



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

julieoapw wrote:
At the university I worked at, the students had their main lessons with properly-qualified, contracted, English speaking staff. The Westgate course was an optional extra


Incidentally, that is a very common union-busting technique in case you weren't aware.

Same thing was happening when I worked for a major telco in Canada. You bring in non-union labor (much cheaper, untrained, unqualified) under the guise of providing a specific service that does NOT encroach on union workers' duties. Then slowly, start training them to replace the union workers and certain related duties start getting thrown over to them that otherwise union workers would be doing. At some point it all reaches critical mass and it's a hop, skip and a jump from locking out the whole 9 and replacing them with the people they've been preparing for that very purpose.

Sure, the university where you worked had you teaching extra-curric. courses... But how long will it be until they take over English teaching completely? It's just a matter of time, if you ask me.
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julieoapw



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sure, the university where you worked had you teaching extra-curric. courses... But how long will it be until they take over English teaching completely? It's just a matter of time, if you ask me.


so you thought you'd call me a scab today for something that mighthappen in the future?!!
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JimDunlop2



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummm.... What are you on? Where did I ever call you a scab?
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julieoapw



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Westgate scabs Reply with quote

JimDunlop2 wrote:
julieoapw wrote:
I object to the offensive term "Westgate scab."


Wonderful. It was indeed meant offensively.

I wouldn't call it inappropriate, however. Merriam-Webster says:

Scab:

3 a : a contemptible person b (1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union (2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended (3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike (4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

As far as I can tell, what happened to R. Redfield is EXACTLY the definition of what a scab is. But if you truly object to the term, I think I can convince the people in the thread to replace it with: "the contemptible, unqualified, replacement labour who screwed Redfield and other teachers out of a job." Feel better?
Quote:


uh, how about here?
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JimDunlop2



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever, Julie.... Rolling Eyes
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JimDunlop2



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resorted to sarcastic name-calling, have we, Andare? Brilliant! Tell you what. If you or your compadre Julie can piece together anything resembling a lucid argument to show that what I'm saying is incorrect or flawed, I'll be glad to discuss and debate it with you.

In the mean time, as far as I know, I was pointing out to Julie that even though she herself was not taking over some uni prof's job, the technique being used by either ECC or Westgate (take your pick) is a well-known union-busting move. A statement of fact... Then somehow Julie takes it quite personally and draws the conclusion that I'm calling her a scab because of what might happen in the future. Well, not right now I'm not. IF it does happen someday, then yeah, that's what you'll be to me. But not yet. For now, only the company you are working for (worked for) is providing scab labor -- even if you weren't one of them.

That's like saying Nike isn't guilty of running sweatshops because the particular sneaker that you are currently wearing happened to have been made in the U.S. Open your eyes!

If Julie doesn't have the sense to differentiate between the two, I'm not going to bother pointing out the obvious. An Rolling Eyes and a "whatever" is all what her reply warranted.

As for you, Andare, if you had ever worked in a decent unionized workplace, you wouldn't be talking this way. I don't care if you label me as some kind of nutjob left-wing socialist. I'm not a highly political person, left or right. I just want honest representatives who listen to their constiutents, be they from the left or right. However if change needs to happen I'll speak out. And if it means waving a red flag and setting up a barricade, then so be it. At least it would turn a few heads.
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Nagoyaguy



Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: Aichi, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from the distasteful and anti-educational feeling provided by universities hiring poorly qualified instructors, what does anyone know about the legality of it?

Dispatch companies have been operating for years in the public education system here. Groups like Interac, W5 and the like have a stranglehold on jobs for native English teachers at the elementary, junior high, and high school levels. Yet, few people see it as a problem. As a parent, I would not be happy to know that the school my son goes to simply farmed out the teaching jobs to the lowest bidder, also to someone who is NOT accountable to the school administration. IMHO, it shows the general level of contempt that English language instruction engenders in the general public.

Last I heard, Japanese labour law stated that positions filled with contract employees (such as dispatch instructors) could only be filled for a maximum of 3 years. After that, the position has to be either eliminated, or the employee has to be hired directly/permanently by the school. Anyone know about this?
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taken from a recent email subscriber list:


One works part-time at a university where "advanced English classes"
have been outsourced to a Tokyo company, and 'regular' part-time and
full-time staff teach the lower proficiency classes. The company has two
teachers going to the university 5 days a week to teach 2 classes a day
to the same students. The teachers are on campus and mostly available
outside classroom hours, too. At the end of each semester, the company
sends a Japanese staff member as counselor to talk with students and
deal with any complaints. The company seems to be charging the
university the same rate as they pay their part-time staff, but is
probably paying the two teachers less.


As for the part-time and full-time staff teaching the lower proficiency
classes, there is meant to be coordination of the programme, managed by
non-Japanese and Japanese full-time staff, but it has not been working
so well. My colleague felt there was a lack of communication between the
administration, the full-time staff, and the part-time staff, and that
the administration did not understand what was being achieved in the
classes by the students. She had presented a video of some parts of her
course to the admin to show what the students could do by the end of two
years, and the admin was pleasantly surprised. So, the grounds for
opting for outsourcing seem to have been the lack of co-ordination and
communication between different parties involved.

My other informant works part-time in a faculty at a different
university where there have been rumours for the last couple of years
that "something" is going to happen and that part-time jobs will be cut.
In this faculty, it seems that "conservative" individuals have taken
power over the "internationalists" and want to reduce the number of
English credit courses that students have to take. The in-fighting
between these factions have left the part-timers adrift, without knowing
what their employment will be in the next academic year, and the quality
of the English education offered students has suffered.
Whereas the
English courses were closely aligned with the students' academic majors
before and were geared to academic study through English, this is being
gradually watered down as credit requirements get reduced.
In turn,
students are losing a clear sense of what they are doing in courses and
are struggling to make progress.
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JimDunlop2



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 2286
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for proving my point, Andare.

When you can put two coherent thoughts together and come up with a something worth responding to aside from changing my name from Jim to Jimbo to Jimbob, I'll be waiting.

P.S. Edit:

Quote:
...but last to help anyone else...


Of the 600 posts to my name, I'm sure you will find more than a fair share of those which actually help people, and Paul a moderator has also done his part in the 2000-odd posts to his. Get your facts straight before you sound even more foolish than you already haven shown yourself to be.
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bye Bye,

Andare
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