Job Discussion Forums

Carolebest · Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 18

i've been communicating with a recruiter in Hefei, China for 2 mo now and my "letter of invitation" is supposed to be in the works for the next week. In negotiations he would never send me a contract even tho he's sent me loads of stuff on China and pictures of the school etc. He says by local law they don't do it. The name of the school is Bluniverse in Hefei. Has anyone heard of it? and should a person go even tho they won't send a contract?..they've been good at everything else and i said send it just so i can read it even if i have to sign over there..the answer was still "no". Everythin;g you hear and read says "Do Not Go Without a Contract" are there exceptions?.. Also, i asked to communicate with a teacher there and he sent me the email to a fellow who has been friends with the owner for 10 yrs.....It seems they've been so efficient in everything else i'm really need to hear from someone over there in the know! Thanks to anyone who can let me know!..C[list]

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

No, they are hiding something. If it is a Chinese "law", then it is a new one that I've never heard of and has yet to be discussed here at Dave's. My guess is that they are telling you one thing and the contract says something else. Perhaps there are extra duties on the contract without extra pay. Perhaps there are some severe restrictions when it comes to holidays or living arrangements. I would be very wary if I couldn't see the contract before I came all the way to China.

My future job sent me the "appendix" to the contract which, my contact says, is where all the negotiation stuff is. She says that the actual contract part is just a "standard" Chinese contract and, by the way, she doesn't have it on her computer to send as an attachment. Hmmm. Luckily, I'm not in the same boat as you. I'm planning on traveling up there this weekend to have a look and to POSSIBLY sign it if it seems above board.

go_ABs · Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 507

No. Don't fuss around with this lot. As Kev says, if it IS a law, then it's not one that people take any notice of. I DEFINITELY would NOT head anywhere without seeing a contract. A signed one, preferably.

Also, what do you know of Hefei? I live an hour and a half from there. It's not exactly wonderland, though tolerable. I sometimes go there to stock up on butter and cheese. It has a vaguely good 'wild' animal park. It also has plenty of beggars, starers and people; it's quite a condensed city.

It's a bit personal, so only answer if you wish: what salary are they offering? I work in a private school outside of Hefei and earn 8,000 a month. In Hefei the minimum offer should be ~4,500, though 5,500+ would be better. Depends on whether it's private or public, though.

Anyway, good luck with your decision, and remember to tell us how you get on.

PS I've just re-read your post. Is the recruiter offering you a job in Hefei? Perhaps they are reluctant to send you a contract because once you arrive they will try and farm you out to other schools in other places. Have a look around these boards and there's very little to say that's positive about recruiters in China. The general feeling is to negotiate personally with the school you are interested in.

SimonM · Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 1835 Location: Toronto, Ontario

If it's a law it's only a couple of weeks old. I asked for a copy of the contract at my job less than a month ago and I was sent one without any hassle.

lowes13 · Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Posts: 56 Location: Jiangsu

Based on the info you provide I would be very suspicious of Bluniverse and indeed I would be looking elsewhere for work.

The contract is something you must see before coming to China, no need for discussion! If you take the time to read on this forum you'll discover that even though FT's have agreed to a contract they've seen there can still be difficulties down the line.

You describe them as being "very efficient in everything else" when the "everything else" is of little importance, think about it.
Photos of the school are virtually never truly representative of a school and will provide no proof as to what life will be like there. They are efficient in the sales pitch and not much more, the fact they use an old friend as a reference should really make alarms bell ring for you.

Remove the doubt aspect and look to another company or school unless you can see the contract, I would choose somewhere else anyway.

Good Luck!

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

You mentioned a "recruiter" and a school - the latter going by the name of 'Bluniverse". Are the one and the same?
Recruiters normally are go-betweens that accept no responsibility for those they hire on behalf of an employer. You have to sign a contract with your employer; recruiters mostly are illegitimate businesspeople. In fact, the majority of them are ex-FAO's who simply learnt the tricks of their new trade while on the job working for a public school where they were the only ones who could communicate with English speakers.
I would be doubly careful in this case. Hefei is a backwater and you cannot choose from among many jobs in that area.
Why don't you ask your would-be hirer whether they are going to hire you legally, i.e. offer you a work permit, resident's permit and a one-year contract with airfare paid at the end of your stint?
If he says yes, then he should also be willing to forward to you a signed contract. And an invitation letter for your visa application.

tofuman · Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 937

Eager to take that job and come to China? Careful. There are lots of legitimate jobs available. If you are willing to fly around the world on the word of a person who may be a liar, a cheat, and a thief, slow way down.

Carolebest · Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 18

I can't thank everyone enuf for their responses to my "contract" dilema!..to answer a few questions..they are offering 3500-4500/mo in this private school. The guy i've been writing is an attorney from California (so he says.. from not far from where i used to live ..might also be a pitch!)..i'm not sure if he's and independant recruiter because i had the understanding he worked for the school, now i don't know what to believe. The climate , niceness and convenience is important to me and again thanks to the person who told me it was a "backwater" ,.not my scene at all!! and with so much to chose from it would be a real shame!!....Yes ..an attorney very efficient in the sales pitch..you got that right!! I'm definately looking elsewhere..if anyone knows any great sites or schools in the south in the warm weather and close to the beach..please let me know i'm going to check out "Beihai"...Thanks again for all your wise advice..it has been warmly appreciated!..Carole B

brsmith15 · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1142 Location: New Hampshire USA

hermoine · Joined: 19 Dec 2004 Posts: 28 Location: china

Yes, RUN

First of all, any school with the name Bluniverse does not sound legit.

What is the Chinese name of the school? Why are you going through a lawyer in California for a job? There are lots of decent jobs on Dave's without having to go through a recruiter, unless of course you are not qualified enough or have other things you lack in teaching English here in China.

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Hey, guys to my knowledge there are (legal) schools in China who do not send that Contract over the email. It is a standard procedure to send the info (pics inclusive that�s a great benefit). And then, A Letter of Intent is sent to be signed by the applicant and returned before the applicant�s departure from his/her homeland. By the way, there are the standard Foreign Affairs Contracts that are the same everywhere in China (they are numbered and well-registered). Yes, they are ambiguous, written in Chenglish language and they are not in effect everywhere in China (yet). However, there are some old-new rules that have been enforced in quite a few provinces as of late and there is a requirement to sign those standard government Contracts before the Residency Permit (work visa) stamp is put in the passport. To get to the point, which I hope that I am not missing here, Carolebest might not have received this Contract due to the standard government Contract (it is a �booklet-like� bind document).
In any case, the school might be �taking you for a ride� Carolebest, since they have not provided you with other reasonable foreign teachers� contacts.
Cheers and beers

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Carolebest, the Letter of Intent (in case of that standard government Contract) should include the info about the terms of your future employement (salary and working hours etc).
If they do not deal with the standard government Contracts, have not disclosed the terms and conditions of your intended employement, they are surely not honest. But then this is your recruiter that you are dealing with. I guess you might question him/her and whether he/she wants to get something out of it and go_ABs has got a good point there too.

With regards to standard government (FAO) Contracts I have mentioned and I do not know whether they are routine in Hefei (find that out), they may cause confrontations in months, years to come in China. The large franchised schools have their own standard Contracts (will be interesting to see how that'll be enforced there), and some smaller operations offer their foreign teachers to sign not only the government (FAO) Contract, but also their own alongside (with a note on that government (foreign affairs) Contract that other clauses have been agreed upon in another "document (school's Contract)". It sounds really confusing, though truth. Signing two Contracts (school's Contract basically includes the terms and conditions) and the FAOs one (moral standards etc) might cause some conflicts of interest there.

It depends where in China you are. As per Hebei, again I do not know, whether they have enforced this new Residency Permits (work visas) laws that require the standard government Contract's signature. I am just raising a possibility of it and giving the recruiter a bit of a benifit of doubt here.

Cheers and beers

sigmoid · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 1276

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

If anyone is interested, I have a copy of the OFFICIAL contract sent to me in the mail and now scanned into my PC in Word format (word for word minus spelling mistakes), along with two different contract appendixes (one for former employer and one for soon-to-be new employer).

Carolebest · Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 18

Thanks englishgibson for a very detailed and informative answer. I am now switching course. "tw" ..yes i would be interested in a copy of the official contract sent to me thanks.! email: [email protected] ..Oh, P.S. The original guy i was dealing with during this hiring process (whether he was a recruiter or he said worked for the school) has never written me back and now with no kiss good-bye he has disappeared!!Hmmmm!..another guy who he said owns the school is writing me...said he saw my resume on Daves cafe..hmm..well i'm about to put a period on this whole thing!!