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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:45 am Post subject: Wrongful Deportation of Foreign Teacher on Taiwan |
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A South African national reiterated his eligibility for legal stay in Taiwan after he was deported by prosecutors months ago.
Warren Ellie, 28, was employed by an English cram school when he arrived in Taiwan three months ago. During his stay, Ellie befriended an R.O.C. citizen, a woman identified only by her surname, Wu.
Because of an argument, Wu reported to the police that Ellie, who graduated from Ashwood University, provided fake education credentials when he applied for his visa. The police, because of Ellie's nationality, instinctively checked with the South African embassy for his education records.
The police proceeded to arrest Ellie after representatives from the South African office replied that there is no such academic institute in the country. The police, without granting due process to Ellie, instructed the English institute to fire Ellie and deported him.
Angry with the Taiwanese police for their flawed handling of his case, Ellie decided to return to the island in order to set records straight. After providing evidence of the authenticity of his education background, the court threw out all accusations made against him. |
Wrongful Deportation of Foreign Teacher on Taiwan! |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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I see the courts examined the matter thoroughly, quashed every objection, and cleared him completely.
Well done Taiwan justice! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Fortigurn wrote: |
I see the courts examined the matter thoroughly, quashed every objection, and cleared him completely.
Well done Taiwan justice! |
Well said Fortigurn.
In ten years here this is the first apparently legitimate claim of wrongful deportation of a foreign teacher that I have ever heard. The world is an imperfect place and Taiwan is certainly no different.
Mistakes are made in this regard in every country of the world and although I am sure that no one would attempt to justify these mistakes nor is anyone likely to be proud of them, I agree that the fact that the courts handled the case appropriately on appeal is far more telling for Taiwan justice for foreigners than is a mistake made at law enforcement level.
It is good to know that there is legal protection for foreigners and that the appeals process actually works. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Aristotle as it seems to support what I have been saying all along and that is that the legal system here in Taiwan does protect us foreigners. |
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ScottSommers
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 82
Location: Taiwan
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot for the headsup. This makes Aristotle's spin even more ridiculous. The immigration police were correct, and the courts were lenient, making Taiwan come out looking good all round.
The courts didn't realise that this degree came from a degree mill, but that's hardly suprising given the information they were fed. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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I noticed this on a discussion on forumosa:
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=34280
They have taken the discussion along the route of the online degree angle. At the end of the day the authorities still made mistakes in this case, but funnily enough these mistakes were in favor of the foreigner which again seems to go against Aristotles original reason for posting this.
No matter which way you look at, it is clear that there is no officialanti-foreigner sentiment on the whole by the government here in Taiwan.
| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| In ten years here this is the first apparently legitimate claim of wrongful deportation of a foreign teacher that I have ever heard. |
In light of the above it looks like I need to retract the above statement.
So, in ten years here I have never seen a substantiated case of wrongful deportation of a foreign teacher. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:51 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with the resident Republic of China crony on this one.
Any time the ROC courts on Taiwan make a ruling in favor of a non Chinese person's rights to residence on Taiwan, something is amiss.
There was one other case similiar to this mentioned earlier but the ROC government on Taiwan simply issued another deportation order for the same infraction in the only other case in the history of the Republic of China when the courts threw out a deportation order of a non Chinese person. Claiming that a new case number makes it a new case even though it is identical to the first deportation order. Effectively circumventing what little judicial oversight exist in deportation cases.
This has been the method of deporting both Taiwanese and non Chinese for the duration of the ROC occupation of Taiwan.
That has not happened in this case!
Sounds like this individual has accumulated large amounts of quanxi.
Lawyers are not cheap and once a deportation order is issued the accussed is prohibited from employment or means of income.
The ROC goverment does not ssupply legal counsel or assistance to non Chinsese on Taiwan and the order gives the accused 14 days to leave or face arrest.
I wonder who was backing him?
Welcome to Taiwan!
A. |
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Lover
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:31 am Post subject: |
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So clark.w.griswald why was Aristotle deported?
I really want to know how safe Taiwan is for foreigners! Aristotle can you honest tell us why you were deported?
The speculation on this board is that you know longer live in Taiwan, you were deported. Why no one has post why! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Lover wrote: |
| So clark.w.griswald why was Aristotle deported? |
OK. My earlier post no doubt needs clarifying. I was not trying to suggest that Aristotle had been deported, and I apologize to Aristotle if this is the way that my comment has come across. I was merely trying to suggest that I doubt that he is still here, and as he has always been an advocate of working illegally, and as he is so bitter about deportation issues, that maybe his reason is that he himself was deported. I have no evidence that this is the case, and am not attempting to rumor monger, I am merely throwing it up as a possibility.
It seems pretty obvious that he was working here illegally at one time or another, but as his information is so out of dateI doubt that he is still here. He may have been deported or he may have just left. I don't really care either way.
| Lover wrote: |
| I really want to know how safe Taiwan is for foreigners! |
It is as safe as anywhere. Just ask the thousands of foreigners that live on the island and have never has a problem. Danger in traffic is probably the biggest danger you are likely to face here.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| There was one other case similiar to this mentioned earlier but the ROC government on Taiwan simply issued another deportation order for the same infraction in the only other case in the history of the Republic of China when the courts threw out a deportation order of a non Chinese person. |
What case are you referring to? Details please. |
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BigMooseJohn
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:29 am Post subject: S.African |
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As a South African, I am disgusted by all his actions.
The fake degree, then the nerve to return and appeal.
But, how many other fake degree holders from other countries are holding down teaching positions here ? More than you realise.
I smell a rat or two or many. |
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Lover
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| Lover wrote: |
| So clark.w.griswald why was Aristotle deported? |
OK. My earlier post no doubt needs clarifying. I was not trying to suggest that Aristotle had been deported, and I apologize to Aristotle if this is the way that my comment has come across. I was merely trying to suggest that I doubt that he is still here, and as he has always been an advocate of working illegally, and as he is so bitter about deportation issues, that maybe his reason is that he himself was deported. I have no evidence that this is the case, and am not attempting to rumor monger, I am merely throwing it up as a possibility.
It seems pretty obvious that he was working here illegally at one time or another, but as his information is so out of dateI doubt that he is still here. He may have been deported or he may have just left. I don't really care either way.
| Lover wrote: |
| I really want to know how safe Taiwan is for foreigners! |
It is as safe as anywhere. Just ask the thousands of foreigners that live on the island and have never has a problem. Danger in traffic is probably the biggest danger you are likely to face here.
| Aristotle wrote: |
| There was one other case similiar to this mentioned earlier but the ROC government on Taiwan simply issued another deportation order for the same infraction in the only other case in the history of the Republic of China when the courts threw out a deportation order of a non Chinese person. |
What case are you referring to? Details please. |
Oh so you don't know for sure if Aristotle was deported. Anyway thank you very much for clearing everything up. Maybe I will take a vacation to Taiwan to see how the people and place really is. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Lover wrote: |
Oh so you don't know for sure if Aristotle was deported.
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I think that you are making far too much of my earlier statement.
I have never stated that Aristotle had been deported nor did I strongly suggest that this was somehow the case. I merely referred in an offhand way during discussion of another topic that one possible explanation for Aristotles paranoia about foreign teachers being deported may be because he himself may have been deported. This was all stated in the context of deportations, the fact that Aristotle has shown an ignorance of what is happening in Taiwan in recent times, and based upon the fact that he has always been an advocate of working illegally here. I think that it is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were in fact true.
I am somewhat confused by your posts. You seem to suggest that you are an individual who is interested in coming to Taiwan but is concerned about safety. I would assume that your questions and requests for clarification should really be aimed at Aristotle as he is the one who has suggested repeatedly that Taiwan is not a safe place to live. If you are really as concerned as you suggest that you are, then why not ask Aristotle some questions about his claims and try to get to the bottom of that, rather than labor the point about a single offhand remark that I made within the body of an earlier post. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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So clark.w.griswald why was Aristotle deported?
I really want to know how safe Taiwan is for foreigners! Aristotle can you honest tell us why you were deported?
The speculation on this board is that you know longer live in Taiwan, you were deported. Why no one has post why!
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No, I have never been deported by the goverment of Taiwan because I have never allowed myself to be put in a position where deportation was plausible.
Yes, I am still on Taiwan and I couldn't be present in this capacity if I were not.
| Quote: |
| So clark.w.griswald why was Aristotle deported? |
You can not hold the Republic of China cronies on Taiwan in contempt for doing their job. They may not get the little nuances of of western culture like sarcasm and integrity but the fact that they care enough to try to defend the corrupt society that is modern Taiwan is encouraging in some ways.
They have made a choice and now they are forced to live with it.
Don't be put off by all the negative observations of people. Visiting Taiwan can be an eye opening and educational experience.
Good luck!
A. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for replying to this Aristotle. It is good to knock these things on the head before they get out of hand, and I will make no further reference to this situation. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Having now examined this case more thoroughly, there are numerous discrepancies in the newspaper reports, official documents and the local press reports.
I have found at least three different names of Universities in question all quoted from a source other than the people directly involved.
This case stinks from top to bottom of corruption and coercion.
Welcome to Taiwan.
A. |
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