Job Discussion Forums

Mchristophermsw · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 228

I have been reading several post and people expressing that it is all down hill once you have get married and have kids as a ESL Professional.

I can understand how ones income can shrink with a family but in 2005 most people have a two income earner family. I can only assume that those who have said that they are unable to support a family are those whose household income is from a single wage earner.

Also it is amazing how countless number of people in these foriegn countries live and are happy that make much less that ESL Professionals.

My point is that with two people working there should be no problem raising a family in Asia or elsewere.

What say you forum?

Mchristophermsw · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 228

Correction-----alot of two income families are working poor in the states due to high cost of living in certian areas and low wages.

But living in in Korea, Veitnam, Japan or Tiawan a two income family should be doing ok ( though not rich but comfortable ) especially if your living "local" like the nationals.

merlin · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:07 am Post subject:

problem is the increased expenses when you have a family in a foreign country.
Sure, man and wife without chid is pretty easy.
Add one child and suddenly you have to start forking out money right and left for things like authentic English Children's books, tuition in a foreigner's school, trips back home to see the grandparents, food that's actually safe to eat and not just "probably kinda" safe. Are you going to buy expensive pampers that keep your baby's bum nice and healthy or whatever cheapo diapers are locally manufactured despite the eczema and "spillage". There are a million and one things and they add up.

When you're "home" you're on familiar ground and can usually find a cheaper way to do things but when you're out of your element you find yourself paying through the nose all the time because you just don't know any better.

But it's definitely "doable". Just "less doable" than back home.

EnglishBrian · Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 189

Like Merlin said, there are so many issues when get thinking about this question, and to some extent you need to clarify what 'married with a kid' means.
1) Married to a local overseas where you're teaching
2) Married to another EFL teacher
3) Married to someone from you home country and taking them with you.

The issues are different in different situations, but for example, in a low wage economy you can live ok but you won't be saving a pension that's going to support you anywhere but that low wage country - forget ever returning home on retirement. In some countries (ok, I'm thinking Eastern Europe here) a greater proportion of people own their homes outright (given them in Communist times, often with a Dacha a well which they can sell now for plenty of cash) - a TEFL teacher will be paying rent so their salary won't go as far. If you're travelling (or decide to travel to up your income) with your kid, what do you do once they get to school age - $20,000 a year International School?

Another rather unfortunate possibility (I'm speaking from second hand experience here) is that if you marry a local, they feel that as a 'rich foreigner' you should be able to support them without them working - and they'll site friends who've married expat accountants and engineers who drink with you as examples.

Still , I think Merlin's nappy issue is the clincher. Have to go now - just had call from wife and have to carry baby and pushchair up 5 flights.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

There are not many places in the world where a single-income earner can teach and support a family (in my case 3 others) and still live comfortably. I can think of the Middle East, Korea, Taiwan, Japan and maybe others if someone wants to add. This of course is if you have the right job and the right qualifications. In Japan, for instance, you could not support a family on a regular conversation teaching job unless you had a lot of private jobs to go with it.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:

Starting from where I am, two earner family with no kids is laughably easy. Eat out whenever/wherever we want, cinema, theatre, dancing, bars, nightclubs, travel at weekends, jungle tours, hobbies, donations to charities, dinner parties, big apartment, occasional trips home. (Two separate home countries, but usually can't make it to both together.) This is all due, in part to having two good EFL salaries, and in part to the fact that our only child is, technically, a guinea pig.

Children would make it harder, but it depends on what you want. Living "local," as another poster suggested, is the key. But of course, there is always the question of how "local" you are willing to live. I know families here with 8 or more children who earn much less than we do. But, most of those children don't necessarily finish (or sometimes start) school, and many were born at home. That "local" I won't go. But neither do I feel that the only options are complete first world luxury or third world poverty.
Here, at least, there are decent private schools that fall WELL below the $20000 international school price tag, and I wasn't figuring on 8 kids in any case. This does shift some of the schooling responsibility to the parents, because it may rule out English language education. Means the kids would be bilingual, but means that any schooling you want them to have in their "home" language will have to be supplementary, probably taught by you.
Another thought would be good medical insurance. If you want a family, get a policy that covers family expenses. (Pre-natal, birth, early childhood, etc. ) It will be expensive, but if you're shooting for a family, well worth it. If you have the quals and get the experience, many employers cover this. Ask your native colleagues how they do it. (Practically all Ecuadorians have kids. )
And about Pampers. Don't use disposable diapers. Just don't. Not here, not back home, not anywhere. Big waste of resources, on both a personal and global level. If you wanna have kids, you're gonna have to clean some poop, so just get on with it.
I have colleagues who are doing it, I might get there some day myself. It takes some adjustments, but if you want a family on an EFL income, it can be done. If you prepare properly, it can actually be pretty good!

Regards,
Justin

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

I believe the original question was about making a good living as an EFL/ESL professional?

If you are a bona fide professional, you can make a good living pretty much anywhere. But that means having what professional educators have pretty much anywhere: at least a Master's degree, and credible experience.

WYSIWYG · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject:

I've gathered from reading posts on this site, that many teachers are working for less than what they might think they're worth, but money isn't their motivation. I think actual "values" of jobs may change a bit if more quit converting currencies.

Smile

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

matttheboy · Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Posts: 854 Location: Valparaiso, Chile

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1486945,00.html

for an article about disposables v washables

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

I guess it depends on what people call an "ESL/EFL professional".

Is that a person who works at a conversation school? Most in Japan don't require more than a bachelor's degree in any subject.

Is that a person who teaches a string of PT jobs at high schools or businesses? Depending on the visa, you may not even need a degree.

What about someone who has opened his/her own language school, whether he/she has a degree in the field or not?

Or is it only a FT certified, degreed person that plans to make a serious career out of teaching in mainstream schools?

merlin · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:02 am Post subject:

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

I am going to jump into the disposable diaper dispute.

I HAVE a child. I chose not to use Pampers or other plastic potty substitutes once she was 3 days old in order not to contribute to the non-biodegradable bung heap. That meant frequently washing cloth diapers by hand, as we didn't have an automatic washer in the house until my daughter was 7. I felt good about doing that--well, as good as I ever feel doing any kind of domestic work--and knowing that my daughter was also more comfortable wearing cotton, instead of plastic.

It is precisely the convenience products that have screwed up our planetary environment past the point of no return.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject:

It's true- I have no kids. Well, haven't ever conceived any. But in the course of my life, I have changed, and cleaned, a fair few diapers. (I'm a committed volunteer to all sorts of childrens causes, and frankly, orphanages can't afford pampers.) I'm not saying it doesn't suck. But it can be done. My parents have four kids, and both of them work. And yet, they managed to avoid the use of disposable diapers. (Well, except for long trips in the car...)

Justin

Zero Hero · Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 944

The minimum salary on the NET scheme in Hong Kong is $17,000 HK a month, which comes with an allowance of $10,500 HK per month for housing, maid, etc. The pay scale tails off at around $50,000 � that is still per month � and one's salary increases by $1,000 per month for every year served on the scheme. Many married couples who are both NETs here in HK have a joint income in excess of $120,000 per month.

Make up your own mind.